PDA

View Full Version : APR'd S3 versus STI



daninsyd
June 26th, 2004, 01:25 AM
while driving my wife to the airport to collect a friend, I noticed a wrx sti pulling along side me. Initially I wanted no part of his revving engine, however after much persuasion from the wife, "go on , you know u can take him...".... "you'll be less of a man if you don't".....bla bla.. Ok so they light changed and we both dropped our guts, BLAMM..STI was in front till the end of second then S3 blasted past late second and all third gear......YAYY. :beat: :mrgreen:

EZZY
June 26th, 2004, 02:33 AM
even though we know having a TLGP isnt a good thing to share on a public forum.... :beat: but what a heck...... good on ya mate, the mrs must be proude of you! i'd pay to watch the STi driver's face afterwards :beat:

e
ps. TLGP = triffice light grand prix
pps. where did you find a wife like that.... if it was us.... i'd be told.... "dont even think about it :club:

Chux
June 26th, 2004, 03:00 AM
lol, i've been told that your S3 is bloody quick Dan, i've seen it go once before and it certainly looks quick ;-)

5VTurbo
June 26th, 2004, 04:00 AM
while driving my wife to the airport to collect a friend, I noticed a wrx sti pulling along side me. Initially I wanted no part of his revving engine, however after much persuasion from the wife, "go on , you know u can take him...".... "you'll be less of a man if you don't".....bla bla.. Ok so they light changed and we both dropped our guts, BLAMM..STI was in front till the end of second then S3 blasted past late second and all third gear......YAYY. :beat: :mrgreen:

He backed off, I had sti v6 before my S3 and it would cream the S3 chipped or not. Different kind of car though.....

Turbomike61
June 26th, 2004, 12:03 PM
5V, Don't be so sure, I've beaten one and drawn another, and my car weighs 1600kg.

Aussie Audi Guy
June 26th, 2004, 01:03 PM
I'm with the Audi boys on this one,

Good S3's are now hitting well over 150kw@the wheels, which is well on par with a "mildly worked" rex.

If its a true TLGP, and the rex has been sitting for more than 20 odd seconds, it will be slow off the line. The top mount intercooler gets heatsoak from the hot engine air rising up & escaping through the scoop. It can climb 20 degrees in a short period of time. Lights go green, rexy gets a gut full of hot air - instant dis-advantage 8)

Front mounts help out a lot on these :mrgreen:

5VTurbo
June 27th, 2004, 01:54 AM
Was pretty depressed after England lost, so decided to go shopping.
Drove to Mona Vale and had the S3 APRed. Took it for a run today up a long ramp of the F3 which I use every day. Usually get up to 140+km/hr before running out of road and now it powers up 180+km/hr and still pulling. Don't usaully speed but just wanted to validate APR's claims. Conclusion....good value for money for what you get, in and out service in less than 1/2 hour. I still think the STI V6 hits 180km/hr quicker and is a better drive, probably due to been 200kg lighter. I don't miss 10 yr olds drooling over it or the attention of the police. My previous cars and what it attracted. STI - Teens/Nods of approval from men/Cops; MR2 - "Is that
a Ferrari?";MX5 - "Pretty Car"; BMW 320i- Women and more women; Boxster S - "Do you want to race at every lights and where's the girl? when I 'am by myself"; Honda CRX De Sol - "No comment"; Audi S3 - "Is that an S3?"; Kawasaki GPX250 - "You're gonna kill yourself".

Boomtownmouse
June 27th, 2004, 08:37 AM
Haha nice summary

cof
June 27th, 2004, 08:16 PM
Drove to Mona Vale and had the S3 APRed. Took it for a run today up a long ramp of the F3 which I use every day. Usually get up to 140+km/hr before running out of road and now it powers up 180+km/hr and still pulling. Don't usaully speed but just wanted to validate APR's claims. Conclusion....good value for money for what you get, in and out service in less than 1/2 hour.

How much for this mod? Is this what's called DPP? What is involved with this mod?

Rai
June 28th, 2004, 12:17 AM
Drove to Mona Vale and had the S3 APRed. Took it for a run today up a long ramp of the F3 which I use every day. Usually get up to 140+km/hr before running out of road and now it powers up 180+km/hr and still pulling. Don't usaully speed but just wanted to validate APR's claims. Conclusion....good value for money for what you get, in and out service in less than 1/2 hour.

How much for this mod? Is this what's called DPP? What is involved with this mod?

DPP (direct port programming) is essentially flashing your ECU though the OBD-II port typically used for diagnosis. It's a simple process if your ECU is capable - program is simply uploaded to your ECU... generally the same price as a traditional chip. This has advantages over the traditional chip as follows:

Software upload means not necessary to crack the ecu open and solder a chip into place

Occasionally chips soldered into place suffer from poor connectivity (cold solder)...wont get this with a 'flashable' solution

Good for warranty as said to be undetectable... or at least extremely stealth (eg. you can change back to the stock program while in for service and if Audi really wanted to they could flash the stock chip while a 'chip' would not permit this ie. a dead giveaway)

AudiRaven
June 28th, 2004, 10:24 AM
Let me see: classic shape STi - weight 1290 kg, power 206 kw(stock) v S3 say 1400 odd kgs and 190kw(modded)....no chance for a S3 I reckon.

cof
June 28th, 2004, 10:55 AM
So the "flashing" is done on the standard ECU? What sort of performance upgrade can be expected on my A4 S-Line by doing this mod?

Aussie Audi Guy
June 28th, 2004, 12:07 PM
save you some time....

http://www.goapr.com.au/products/ecu_upgrade_8ea418t.html

S Line figures there

http://www.goapr.com.au/products/directport.html

Direct port details there

Turbomike61
June 28th, 2004, 04:47 PM
Raven,

When I've run one I find that I jump ahead on every gear change, and the sti has to play catch up higher in the rev range. We're not just talking peak power here, but the volume of power, ie; the space under the lines on the dyno chart. It's not just the power you produce, but the rev range you can hold it for. From what I can see, the sti makes its power higher in the rev range, and for lesser a rev range. I may be wrong, just the way it appears on the road.

Another interesting note, whenever I have a run against any wrx, usually the ones with a rice cannon are slower. Go figure. I've ever been beaten by a non sti.

Boomtownmouse
June 28th, 2004, 05:19 PM
Can I ask what mods you are running on your A4 Turbomike? Larger turbo I assume?

EZZY
June 28th, 2004, 09:52 PM
Another interesting note, whenever I have a run against any wrx, usually the ones with a rice cannon are slower. Go figure. I've ever been beaten by a non sti.

hahaha... the rice boy cant drive :beat: :beat: :beat:


Can I ask what mods you are running on your A4 Turbomike? Larger turbo I assume?

turbomike has one of the most beautiful audis, he has a imola tt roadster :bow_down: :bow_down:
dont think the tt is chipped ATM :?:

e

daninsyd
June 29th, 2004, 12:29 AM
ok about my car...lets see, it's had 150 at the wheels on a 30 deg day with the turbo glowing red hot, not kidding here either, you could toast marshmellows at 100 paces.... considering you loose approximately 35% from engine to wheels that puts me at about 202 KW.... ive got the APR chip and larger intake and a couple of other things to assist.. BTW the manual says the weight is 1495 with 90% fuel, I was on my last 5-10%.

It was the old style sti, not sure if that's slower or quicker but it weights 1395 kgs.

Turbomike61
June 29th, 2004, 08:28 AM
I have an APR remap. My car is standard with a KO4 (same as an S3). Power is around the 195kw as claimed by APR.

Boomtownmouse
June 29th, 2004, 09:52 AM
Very nice.

EZZY
June 29th, 2004, 09:15 PM
with the turbo glowing red hot.......

i have seen it many time, it looked awesome. my mate (one of popular ex-audi salesmen) used to come over and pop his bonnet and show us the glowing red turbo in his B5 A4TQ. it is perfect for a cold winter night :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

e

ps. sorry mike, didnt know your tt was APR'd :oops: :oops: :oops:

Speeder
September 11th, 2004, 10:20 PM
different story if the wrx has been modified :wink:

Turbomike61
September 11th, 2004, 11:21 PM
different story if the wrx has been modified :wink:


Let's compare apples with apples here. S3/TT's have 165kw, about the same as the base model WRX. The base WRX makes about 150 at the wheels with a chip and exhaust, the same as an APRed S3/TT. However, the S3/TT is much more tractable below 3500 rpm, and the area below the power and torque lines on a dyno chart has more volume than the WRX. And the Audis do this with smaller turbos. People think that WRX's are world beaters. What they really are is a reasonably cheap car with good bang for your buck performance. Place technology evenly within both and there will be nothing in it.

a3page
September 12th, 2004, 01:13 PM
Place technology evenly within both and there will be nothing in it.

well said. even the price tag says it all. what's more better is having a 150kw base awd luxury car with beautiful trim and ergonomics compared to a car that you would most likely pull next to you on the lights to be the same car as yours.

besides, wrx was critiqued as one of the worse interior trim design. if i want a project car, then wrx, if i wan a sunday car, audi it is...

Speeder
September 12th, 2004, 03:08 PM
different people different tastes :D no arguments there, but all i wanted to say is it is alot easier to boost a rexy, then say a S3!?!? and whats the power to weight ratio for a S3?? arnt they a bit of a porker??? im not at all saying that S3 has no chance, probably has the better chance then other audis on the road?? (except rs4 etc)
a3page:- you cant start comparing the 'interior' of a car when an sti/wrx was designed to be a 'rally' car, rather S3 are more of both. Wrx was not meant to be a luxuary car but rather a sports oriented. so please stop talking about how 'sexy' the interior of an audi is when we are talking performance, not 'class' as some of you just like to change the topic.

Lancia
September 13th, 2004, 09:10 AM
I wouldnt race with my wife in the car. It weighs about 1600kg then. :D

Turbomike61
September 13th, 2004, 10:07 AM
Mine weighs 1600 kg anyway. :cry:


But I get to hear all the really cool noises REAL loud with the roof down. :mrgreen:


Who needs a BOV anyway. :big_wink:

Chux
September 13th, 2004, 10:33 AM
different people different tastes :D no arguments there, but all i wanted to say is it is alot easier to boost a rexy, then say a S3!?!?

You can 'boost' an S3 without even popping the bonnet or adding any hardware to increase boost.... 7 minutes, a laptop, an internet connection and a cable is all you need :P

Oh and you need an Irishman aswell.

Black_Mamba
September 13th, 2004, 03:21 PM
TLGP or not TLGP this is a great kill story. And yes, I must concur with the post that says WRX's are good performance for money but I am not I would have the same feeling stepping into the Subaru cabin as I do in my Audi.

This thread should be renamed S3 the Rex Slayer. I would love to hear more S3 kill stories. Maybe you can follow up with S3 versus GT-R sequel ?
:D

jamesa
September 13th, 2004, 03:45 PM
TLGP or not TLGP this is a great kill story. And yes, I must concur with the post that says WRX's are good performance for money but I am not I would have the same feeling stepping into the Subaru cabin as I do in my Audi.

This thread should be renamed S3 the Rex Slayer. I would love to hear more S3 kill stories. Maybe you can follow up with S3 versus GT-R sequel ?
:D

more kill stories huh?

there's this very nice flat freshly resurfaced bit of road in Canberra at the city end of Commonwealth Avenue bridge. You can carry a lot of speed through it.

There I am at the traffic lights, couple of cars back when this very nice blue (think nogaro) old-style NSX pulls up beside me. You know, before they screwed the headlights. Hmm, hello I think, it could be on here.

We have a few cars in front of us but a gap opens up on each side about 20m after the lights. Bang, we're on. I have a slight advantage because of the way the road turns (inside lane), and then there's no looking back, get third, pull away, need to change up to fourth, get fourth, stay in front, but speeds are starting to get into license threatening territory so back off. Off he flies in a huff :)

Maybe I had a little bit of luck on my side in getting in the right lane, but his car is worth 2x as much (or more) so I figured I deserved it :) I don't think he was too happy a camper at being beaten by a little German hatch :mrgreen:

-- james

Black_Mamba
September 13th, 2004, 04:08 PM
Well done. I know Canberra quite well and it's so hard not to make most of the lovely wide and always freshly sealed roads. Commonwealth Avenue you say !?.. hmm.. I used to ride my bike a lot around the ACT but haven't been visiting as often. Hard to lug a family on a bike and driving there is ok but don't want to clock up the Km's !

I haven't noticed many S3's in Canberra and I almost bought a black '02 allRoad demonstrator from the Audi people there but they wouldn't budge on the price.

Enough said: keep an eye out for a blueish Alfa GTV 3.0V6: he is always keen and he reckons he smokes WRX's..

Out of curiosity, how does the S3 go against SS V8 Commodores or Falcon XR6 Turbo or higher models as in Canberra there are probably more of them around.

jamesa
September 13th, 2004, 04:54 PM
Well done. I know Canberra quite well and it's so hard not to make most of the lovely wide and always freshly sealed roads. Commonwealth Avenue you say !?.. hmm.. I used to ride my bike a lot around the ACT but haven't been visiting as often. Hard to lug a family on a bike and driving there is ok but don't want to clock up the Km's !


The roads are great. It's the anonymous white vans you have to watch out for...



I haven't noticed many S3's in Canberra and I almost bought a black '02 allRoad demonstrator from the Audi people there but they wouldn't budge on the price.


There are a few around... there's a silver one not far from me, and I've seen a red one driving round, though in the Canberra light, it almost looks like it's a faded orange. A neighbour used to have a ming blue one but that got sold...

... oh, and today, at the gym, I saw a B5 avant S4, and a whopping brand new RS6. Man that's a nice car :D



Enough said: keep an eye out for a blueish Alfa GTV 3.0V6: he is always keen and he reckons he smokes WRX's..

Alfa drivers are normally up for a go... :)



Out of curiosity, how does the S3 go against SS V8 Commodores or Falcon XR6 Turbo or higher models as in Canberra there are probably more of them around.

My mate has an SS V8 ute which has had extractors/exhaust done, and it goes pretty damn quick. The gearing is longer, and with all that torque I reckon in a straight line and a good start (not too much wheel spin, it's a delicate operation) the SS would win. Don't know how much difference the fettling has made to the car, so don't know about how you'd fare against a stock one.

On the other hand, should a corner present, or in slippery conditions... let's just say most of the money you spend on an SS ute goes towards the engine ;)

-- james

Black_Mamba
September 13th, 2004, 05:30 PM
Ah the old white vans.. Their range is 0.6-0.8Km I think. A couple of times I swore I got done but in fact I didn't because I slowed down in time. In NSW as well. You intend to always look ahead as far as you can when riding a bike so I do that in a car as well and it has helped sooo much in Canberra since the introdution of those white vans and NSW (on the freeway at night I look out for a blueish little sign on the side of the road which usually says 'spee camera in use').

Well I got my A4 1.8T's little ass smoked by a V8 SS Commdore Ute. His wheels spun in first and second. I was stock tho and I way undestimated him. Serves me right. When I had the APR trial, I almost kept up with a Rex (Stock, station wagon) before we both called it off when reached 140Km/h+ and I thought that was damn good. I think I took him by surprise and this is when the CVT on a 1.8T can work in my advantage against a manual. If he was prepared / expecting it I wouldn't stand a chance as I would never be able to catch up once he gets in the lead. This goes to say that going on Killowatts and weight comparison may sometimes be quite different from reality.

Ok. Have you seen any Alfa 147 GTA's in Canberra ? I have seen a couple around Sydney. I read some review somewhere that they can be quicker than a chipped S3. Is that correct ? S3 versus 147 GTA: that would be something to see! Battle of the 2 super hatches (they're the only 2 super hatches in Australia right?). :s3_addict:

A4PLAY
September 13th, 2004, 05:37 PM
http://www.ozaudi.com/nuke/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2379
Try the TT vs 147GTA

jamesa
September 13th, 2004, 05:58 PM
Ah the old white vans.. Their range is 0.6-0.8Km I think. A couple of times I swore I got done but in fact I didn't because I slowed down in time. In NSW as well. You intend to always look ahead as far as you can when riding a bike so I do that in a car as well and it has helped sooo much in Canberra since the introdution of those white vans and NSW (on the freeway at night I look out for a blueish little sign on the side of the road which usually says 'spee camera in use').

I know exactly what you mean. The number of times I've been racing down to the letterbox every day for two weeks to see if I've been done.

Man I'm sick of those vans.


Well I got my A4 1.8T's little a** smoked by a V8 SS Commdore Ute. His wheels spun in first and second. I was stock tho and I way undestimated him. Serves me right. When I had the APR trial, I almost kept up with a Rex (Stock, station wagon) before we both called it off when reached 140Km/h+ and I thought that was damn good. I think I took him by surprise and this is when the CVT on a 1.8T can work in my advantage against a manual. If he was prepared / expecting it I wouldn't stand a chance as I would never be able to catch up once he gets in the lead. This goes to say that going on Killowatts and weight comparison may sometimes be quite different from reality.

I'm yet to drive one of the CVTs because I'm a big quattro fan, but I'd be definitely interested to see how they go in a TLGP :)

Do not underestimate the v8s. "There is no replacement for displacement"



Ok. Have you seen any Alfa 147 GTA's in Canberra ? I have seen a couple around Sydney. I read some review somewhere that they can be quicker than a chipped S3. Is that correct ? S3 versus 147 GTA: that would be something to see! Battle of the 2 super hatches (they're the only 2 super hatches in Australia right?). :s3_addict:

They're too prone to wheel spin to be fast off the line... have you seen the Top Gear video? I love them to look at, I've seen a few around (most with NSW numberplates oddly enough) but all the drivers are in their own little world, kind of like most of the S2000 drivers round here.


http://www.ozaudi.com/nuke/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2379
Try the TT vs 147GTA

another close win to the Audi :)

-- james

Black_Mamba
September 13th, 2004, 06:14 PM
The CVT is sluggish on the take off but then is when APR comes in. Mid range is quite good actually especially in 'S' mode which is a 'tighter' gear ratio. Of course Quattro with CVT would be awesome but can't get that. I will get a Quattro eventually. Maybe even an S3 just for myself but so far the 'compromise' I went through to get the CVT doesn't seem like a compromise at all.

Took on a 180SX in Sydney the other night. He looked like he had a lot work done and he was never able to get in front and I was 1-2 car length ahead all the way until traffic got too heavy and speeds were getting too irresponsible. I am looking for 200SX next :) and I am still stock.

AudiRaven
September 14th, 2004, 10:46 AM
180SX's, esp the CA18 engine ones are easy pickings. A worked SR20 200SX would not be so easy.

I am taking my STi to the track day at Wakefield on 29 October next. I am no Schumacher but I look forward to having run against TT's and S3's if any are coming. My STi is dead stock including suspension, motor, exhaust, boost. It even has the stock Bridgestone Pretenders.

I have no illusions that I will have my butt kicked by the Lotus Elises and Exiges but I am looking for an even fight with the Audi's :D

Black_Mamba
September 14th, 2004, 11:55 AM
I agree that a lot of 200SX will be out of my league but since my 1.8T is a new car I am yet to find where to draw the line rather than looking foolish :)
Wakefield sounds like a fun day. I would come if I can have ALL my mods done by then but I'd still end up the slowest probably. Not if I bring the Ninja tho :twisted:
The Elises will probably outcorner your STI but I think in a straight line you might bew on par. Maybe at Eastern Creek it will be different.

Given this is an A3/S3 forum, I was wondering if any S3 have been up on the Old Pacific Highway ? It's very popular with bikies cos of the twisties and this is where Quattro on a short wheel base will probably come in handy!... I wouldn't know how the STi would perform there tho..

AudiRaven
September 14th, 2004, 01:12 PM
had the STi up the old Pacific Hwy on Saturday afternoon. Awesome fun but the cops were around so I was only taking it at about 80%. There were about 40 bikes at the Pie Shop. Standing there having my ice cream it was like standing in the pits with all these bikes buzzing past!

I took my old S4 up the road to Thredbo last summer and it was a blast. The road is nice and smooth, some great sweeping corners and straights for a bit of winding out the machine. The great thing about the S4 is its tractability at low revs. The bummer is the built in factory understeer and the average steering feel.

Speaking of Canberra cops I got pulled up in a construction zone on the foreshore of the lake. I was driving up to Belconnen and I was doing 75 in the 40 zone. Even though I was living in Canberra at the time I pleaded a lack of local knowledge and was distracted by trying to find where I was (still had my NSW licence and address). The cop initially said I should have slowed down if I was lost but as I reminded him I was in an 80 zone and I was under the general speed limit he let me go with a warning. How lucky was that! I guess wearing a suit and driving a low key Audi helped me too. :D

jamesa
September 14th, 2004, 03:11 PM
Speaking of Canberra cops I got pulled up in a construction zone on the foreshore of the lake. I was driving up to Belconnen and I was doing 75 in the 40 zone. Even though I was living in Canberra at the time I pleaded a lack of local knowledge and was distracted by trying to find where I was (still had my NSW licence and address). The cop initially said I should have slowed down if I was lost but as I reminded him I was in an 80 zone and I was under the general speed limit he let me go with a warning. How lucky was that! I guess wearing a suit and driving a low key Audi helped me too. :D

Now, people say that owning an Audi is more expensive than owning a Subaru, but I'll bet that had you been in the STi, you'd have been booked anyway :)

-- james

Black_Mamba
September 14th, 2004, 04:30 PM
Yeah... I think Subaru are negotiating pre-paid speeding fines with the RTA in NSW and ACT for new WRX models purchased.. Buy 5 get 1 free or something.. :mrgreen: Kinda like pre-paid late fees at the video shop. Imagine the sales pitch.. 'I'll throw in car mats, 5 year warranty, metallic paint and a 10 pre-paid fines'.

Joking aside wouldn't insuring an STI be a lot more than an S3 eventhough Audi has a higher premium rating in general (manufacturer rating is one of the factors used to compute a premuim amongst other factors) ?

OzeTT
September 14th, 2004, 06:57 PM
I have no illusions that I will have my butt kicked by the Lotus Elises and Exiges but I am looking for an even fight with the Audi's :D

Most variants of the Elises wouldn't see which way you went after 130kmh

Chux
September 15th, 2004, 08:26 AM
lucky Wakefield is nice and tight hey Alvin ;-)

AudiRaven
September 15th, 2004, 10:06 AM
Insurance for the S4 (1993 model - valued at $35,000) with NRMA - $1680.00

Insurance for the STi with Shannons $1455.00.

Only catch...can only do 8,000 kms a year in the STi. At the rate I am going I am going to struggle to get to 6,000 k's in the STi.

I think unlimited ks in the STi was $1800 or something like that. mods are pretty much unlimited though.

A4PLAY
September 15th, 2004, 10:26 AM
That's excellent, Is this for over 25yo male?

AudiRaven
September 15th, 2004, 11:54 AM
34 year old male, 1 fine in the last 5 years, 60% NCB, garaged in Pymble with Brant immobiliser.