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Mac79
December 16th, 2015, 07:48 PM
Hi Guys,

I know everyone has their opinion on both of these tunes however I would like to post the dyno results I have personally witnessed and had run on my car since October this year.

The first 2 images are from GT Auto in October as a simple power run, obviously no comparison against stock but with ABT box installed with third party downpipe and air intake. Both run in vicinity of 210kw at wheels and around 400-410nm.

The last image shows the back to back runs done today of ABT (again around 210kw and 400-410nm) vs APR tune at 255 KW and 495nm run with exact same conditions on dynapack hub dyno. Irrefutable results. I will also post the stock run that was done between the full tune when I have the file.

The most concerning information was that the ABT had timing pull up to 7.88 (again I will post logs when I have them), both stock and APR tune pulled timing no more that 3.5 under same conditions.

I have to confirm by no means is my knowledge fantastic when it comes to tuning however is seems to me there is a serious issue with what ABT are claiming there box does and what it actually delivers. Scary to think the damage it could do.

2441124410

Cheers
Mac

roadrunner
December 16th, 2015, 09:20 PM
LOL. Thanks for some real-world results. Would love to see the AFR's.
:pop:

Mac79
December 16th, 2015, 09:39 PM
Sorry guys having issues with files loading.

Mac79
December 16th, 2015, 09:45 PM
24418
correct file

WarwickL
December 16th, 2015, 09:47 PM
If I was buying based on results and the offering, ABT any day of the week

Mac79
December 16th, 2015, 09:56 PM
?? Really ??

ewok666
December 16th, 2015, 10:39 PM
LOL. Thanks for some real-world results. Would love to see the AFR's.
:pop:

Thanks, I've been waiting for something like this for a long time. I always felt that ABT over promised and under delivered a bit, especially given the cost.

I know the tune boxes can cause timing pull but it's not considered that much of an issue as long as it's below 6. Was the fuel exactly the same for both cars?

I did some very unscientific but reproducible testing of stock vs JB1 vs APR: Up the same incline around where I live, measured with torque pro.....not exact but the comparison looks and feels right. Car is all stock and gets just over 200Nm without a tune, 275Nm on the JB1 and about 300Nm on APR.

Seems to me that over $3k is a bit much for ABT. I can't see why it was this hard to get an unbiased comparison on the same day, same conditions.......Thanks again!

ewok666
December 16th, 2015, 10:52 PM
If I was buying based on results and the offering, ABT any day of the week

Why? Any piggy back can be removed without leaving a trace and most of them are sub $1000.....

WarwickL
December 16th, 2015, 10:55 PM
Why? Any piggy back can be removed without leaving a trace and most of them are sub $1000.....

Price and visibility (or lack there of) aren't that important to me.

Ain't the world a wonderful place that we all choose what suits our needs/wants ;)

Alister
December 17th, 2015, 08:09 AM
Would love to see the AFR's.


Agreed - that would assist with providing a more complete picture.


If I was buying based on results and the offering, ABT any day of the week

Surely, given the info presented in the thread, that is either a typo or in jest.

roadrunner
December 17th, 2015, 08:30 AM
You still gotta admire ABT's marketing though in selling a $3500 tune that produces these results. Outstanding!

Mac79
December 17th, 2015, 08:48 AM
I can also now attest after driving the S3 with the ABT box for some months and now having the APR tune (with DSG tune) for 24hrs they are light years apart in power delivery, feel and response. The APR tune is significantly superior :clap:, so glad I went through the process and thanks to Guy and the Team at Harding Peformance for letting me go through the process and witness the dyno's and testing first hand. I will have the log files in my hand soon and will post for all to see. It will surprise some but not all.....

ewok666
December 17th, 2015, 09:42 AM
I can also now attest after driving the S3 with the ABT box for some months and now having the APR tune (with DSG tune) for 24hrs they are light years apart in power delivery, feel and response. The APR tune is significantly superior :clap:, so glad I went through the process and thanks to Guy and the Team at Harding Peformance for letting me go through the process and witness the dyno's and testing first hand. I will have the log files in my hand soon and will post for all to see. It will surprise some but not all.....

it just surprises me that the difference is so big. Coming from a tune box (not ABT) onto the APR I can tell the difference but it's mostly subtle, noticable but not day and night!

Mac79
December 17th, 2015, 10:12 AM
Night and day comment relates to the whole package, the DSG tune makes such a significant difference to how the car behaves, the ECU difference is noticeable but combined with DSG tune makes this car a beast compared to ABT box.


it just surprises me that the difference is so big. Coming from a tune box (not ABT) onto the APR I can tell the difference but it's mostly subtle, noticable but not day and night!

Remarcabull
December 17th, 2015, 11:04 AM
Its great to have results side by side, but something seems seriously off with your car and the ABT dyno result (your car seems to be running stock?), thats what a stock car pulls on a 2WD dyno. I had mine on the MAHA way back when the tune was finally finished, i was getting 225kw ATW (270kw at engine) and 470nm on a 4WD dyno, not a 2WD hub dyno which you had yours done at. Ive dragged off with mates on weekend drives who have APR golf R's and the is pretty much nothing too it except a slightly quicker take off.

Either way my arse dyno and weekend drives with mates proves enough for me :)

see below, im guessing the slight torque increase and TCU map is what made the noticeable difference, but it seems your car was running stock, or worse than stock.

24431

Mac79
December 17th, 2015, 11:14 AM
The original one I had done at GT Auto (AWD dyno) was similar to the one done yesterday, months apart.....I can't confirm as to why there is such a difference, all I know as that the ABT tune ran the similar in both locations with 2 different tuners and operators......Perhaps my set up from the original installer was the issue????? Either way I am happy where I am now, I am glad I went through the process.


Its great to have results side by side, but something seems seriously off with your car and the ABT dyno result, thats what a stock car pulls on a 2WD dyno. I had mine on the MAHA way back when the tune was finally finished, i was getting 225kw ATW (270kw at engine) and 470nm on a 4WD dyno, not a 2WD hub dyno which you had yours done at. Ive dragged off with mates on weekend drives who have APR golfs and the is pretty much nothing too it except a slightly quicker take off.

Either way my arse dyno and weekend drives with mates proves enough for me :)

Remarcabull
December 17th, 2015, 11:21 AM
The original one I had done at GT Auto (AWD dyno) was similar to the one done yesterday, months apart.....I can't confirm as to why there is such a difference, all I know as that the ABT tune ran the similar in both locations with 2 different tuners and operators......Perhaps my set up from the original installer was the issue????? Either way I am happy where I am now, I am glad I went through the process.

Definately something wrong there, your car was definately running stock no wonder the difference was night and day. See my previous post with the quoted stock power from APR on their 2WD hub dyno.

roadrunner
December 17th, 2015, 11:24 AM
Do you have AFR's?

The ABT timing pull of almost 8 is concerning. Was the fuel grade the same?

domino_z
December 17th, 2015, 12:07 PM
piggy back is no gaurantee of flying under the TD1 radar

you can bet pulling massive timing like that, it's definitely being recorded in the rom somewhere

ewok666
December 17th, 2015, 01:42 PM
piggy back is no gaurantee of flying under the TD1 radar

you can bet pulling massive timing like that, it's definitely being recorded in the rom somewhere

Why would they record that? You can get timing pull for all sorts of things, including crap fuel. Even on BP98 I had timing pull of up to 3.5 without a tune. Not sure how other piggy backs work but for the JB1 the ECU sees stock everything.

Mac79
December 17th, 2015, 02:00 PM
I will have the AFR's and full log to upload shortly. Exact same tank of fuel. Runs were done b2b with BP 98 Octane


Do you have AFR's?

The ABT timing pull of almost 8 is concerning. Was the fuel grade the same?

itaplikeabiatch
December 17th, 2015, 02:04 PM
Why would they record that? You can get timing pull for all sorts of things, including crap fuel. Even on BP98 I had timing pull of up to 3.5 without a tune. Not sure how other piggy backs work but for the JB1 the ECU sees stock everything.

Hey ewok, I'm interested in the bms tune box for the 1.8 a3. For the price vs Apr and other tunes it makes it attractive, especially if all u want it for is just a touch more power and tq. Can u tell me more about it. What r the biggest gripes? And lag or surge issues etc or was it just smooth?

ewok666
December 17th, 2015, 02:10 PM
Hey ewok, I'm interested in the bms tune box for the 1.8 a3. For the price vs Apr and other tunes it makes it attractive, especially if all u want it for is just a touch more power and tq. Can u tell me more about it. What r the biggest gripes? And lag or surge issues etc or was it just smooth?

I found it pretty smooth with just more power accross the band. It's really more than just a touch more power. It's almost as good as the flash tune but obviously not quite. For $700 shipped you cannot go wrong. The JB1 guys are honest and upfront. George (the guy who answers all the questions) is very helpful and will tell you what works and what doesn't for your car and mods.

Aussie Audi Guy
December 17th, 2015, 03:30 PM
24432

I'll do a better write up soon, we have a massive rush on at the moment.

To summarise:

Mac's car was run on the same dyno, same day, same fuel.

His dyno result was spot on, before & after.

It's not the first customer to switch from an ABT box to an APR tune (remember, the customers are paying for this)

We pulled apart another discarded ABT Box that was sold in October and was on the car for a couple of weeks - same results all around.

To say it politely, these things could be very dangerous. Over 7 degrees of timing pull is outrageous, this is because the car can not adjust timing, can not adjust fuel. Component protection mode does not function as intended & it only relies on timing pull because of unreported boost & spiralling EGTS.

Connected to the Can Bus? - not at all.

The Simos 12 / 18 has 2 wiring plugs, 105 pins & 91 pins (a fair few coming in & out of the ECU eh?)

On the fantastic giant loom, there are only 7 wires connected that intercept signal & control wires. It picks up its RPM signal via the hall sensor via pin 30/105, it intercepts the secondary lambda sensor 11/91 (would allow for a high flow catalyst or none), it interecpts various other map & boost control sensors.

It does not hook to the Can Bus system anywhere. It does not intercept or control injectors, valve lift, or any other associated items.

It gets much more technical than that on what it is trying to get the stock ECU to cover for - but take it from me, if you own one of these boxes (or any tuning box), do some proper data logs, and do a before / after dyno test (easy to disconnect). Ask any tuner if your AFR's or timing pull is acceptable.

VCDS will give you some numbers (sample rate is low compared to what we use), a MAHA Dyno can pull a lot of this data directly from the OBD plug during a run.

If anyone Brisbane would like to have theirs checked, let me know. - I can also assist with runs in Sydney on the MAHA at a reduced rate also.

24433

Aussie Audi Guy
December 17th, 2015, 03:36 PM
Its great to have results side by side, but something seems seriously off with your car and the ABT dyno result (your car seems to be running stock?), thats what a stock car pulls on a 2WD dyno. I had mine on the MAHA way back when the tune was finally finished, i was getting 225kw ATW (270kw at engine) and 470nm on a 4WD dyno, not a 2WD hub dyno which you had yours done at. Ive dragged off with mates on weekend drives who have APR golf R's and the is pretty much nothing too it except a slightly quicker take off.

Either way my arse dyno and weekend drives with mates proves enough for me :)

see below, im guessing the slight torque increase and TCU map is what made the noticeable difference, but it seems your car was running stock, or worse than stock.

24431

We have offered this before & will happily offer this again.

As a spokesperson for ABT, let us set up a dyno & datalog session of your car and an APR car. You name the dyno & time & I'll even pay for the dyno.

Please feel free to invite one of your friends that
Ive dragged off with mates on weekend drives who have APR golf R's as I'm sure one of them would also be happy for free dyno's and data logs.

I will hold this open to any other ABT customer, as "Remarcabull" seems to always misplace his dyno, or struggles to get to one.

Lets look at fact here, not bum dyno's

roadrunner
December 17th, 2015, 03:47 PM
LOL ... surely AFR's and timing pulls don't matter because there is ABT's amazing tried-and-tested "warranty" + many ABT stickers to place all over your engine bay + a massive birds nest wiring harness and black box (with nothing inside really) that you can show off to all your mates ;)

Shane_S3
December 17th, 2015, 03:55 PM
Damn.. APR would wipe the floor with ABT lol.
The difference is so significant. . and considering the costs of both tunes, there's no way a SANE person would ever choose ABT over APR.
Only thing going for them is the so called 'warranty'.. dunno if it's even legit.

Remarcabull
December 17th, 2015, 03:57 PM
24432

I'll do a better write up soon, we have a massive rush on at the moment.

To summarise:

Mac's car was run on the same dyno, same day, same fuel.

His dyno result was spot on, before & after.

It's not the first customer to switch from an ABT box to an APR tune (remember, the customers are paying for this)

We pulled apart another discarded ABT Box that was sold in October and was on the car for a couple of weeks - same results all around.

To say it politely, these things could be very dangerous. Over 7 degrees of timing pull is outrageous, this is because the car can not adjust timing, can not adjust fuel. Component protection mode does not function as intended & it only relies on timing pull because of unreported boost & spiralling EGTS.

Connected to the Can Bus? - not at all.

The Simos 12 / 18 has 2 wiring plugs, 105 pins & 91 pins (a fair few coming in & out of the ECU eh?)

On the fantastic giant loom, there are only 7 wires connected that intercept signal & control wires. It picks up its RPM signal via the hall sensor via pin 30/105, it intercepts the secondary lambda sensor 11/91 (would allow for a high flow catalyst or none), it interecpts various other map & boost control sensors.

It does not hook to the Can Bus system anywhere. It does not intercept or control injectors, valve lift, or any other associated items.

It gets much more technical than that on what it is trying to get the stock ECU to cover for - but take it from me, if you own one of these boxes (or any tuning box), do some proper data logs, and do a before / after dyno test (easy to disconnect). Ask any tuner if your AFR's or timing pull is acceptable.

VCDS will give you some numbers (sample rate is low compared to what we use), a MAHA Dyno can pull a lot of this data directly from the OBD plug during a run.

If anyone Brisbane would like to have theirs checked, let me know. - I can also assist with runs in Sydney on the MAHA at a reduced rate also.

24433

Some good info there, I havent opened the box up but interesting details, will question it with them when i get a chance.

Im not a spokes person for anyone, like i said before, ive had APR and MTM before on my vehicles. I tuned my car with ABT for warranty reasons after all the turbo issues and also all the Audi dealerships i spoke too recommended it.

Im happy to come up and take you up on the offer like you presented before or even try out the APR tune but the turbo issue is my concern, i havent had the time to come up to Sydney again, im sure you understand it is the silly season after all.

My question that lingers in the back of my mind is that if it is only doing just that, then why only 2 turbos blown out of all worldwide sales? shouldnt it be alot more if its that bad? for a company thats celebrating their 120th birthday, im sure they are doing something right.

After my last APR tune and the scandal hit it didnt really inspire confidence in me in going with them again. - http://www.audiboost.com/content.php?5499-APR-s-reputation-takes-a-major-tumble-What-the-Audizine-and-VWVortex-Audi-VW-forums-don-t-want-you-to-read-and-the-RSC-exhaust-scandal

ewok666
December 17th, 2015, 03:57 PM
Damn.. APR would wipe the floor with ABT lol.
The difference is so significant. . and considering the costs of both tunes, there's no way an insane person would ever choose ABT over APR.
Only thing going for them is the so called 'warranty'.. dunno if it's even legit.

Getting your words confused??? You mean no SANE person would choose ABT I assume!?

Remarcabull
December 17th, 2015, 04:00 PM
We have offered this before & will happily offer this again.

As a spokesperson for ABT, let us set up a dyno & datalog session of your car and an APR car. You name the dyno & time & I'll even pay for the dyno.

Please feel free to invite one of your friends that as I'm sure one of them would also be happy for free dyno's and data logs.

I will hold this open to any other ABT customer, as "Remarcabull" seems to always misplace his dyno, or struggles to get to one.

Lets look at fact here, not bum dyno's

You have some of the official dyno results from the other thread that were posted. pretty much the same but with sports cat.

Shane_S3
December 17th, 2015, 04:00 PM
Getting your words confused??? You mean no SANE person would choose ABT I assume!?
Haha thanks ewok, driving and got a little excited looking at the numbers [emoji57]

ewok666
December 17th, 2015, 04:28 PM
Haha thanks ewok, driving and got a little excited looking at the numbers [emoji57]

That's fine as long as you keep one hand on the wheel and one eye on the road aand you don't slow down ;-)

itaplikeabiatch
December 17th, 2015, 04:31 PM
So we can assume the bms box is no better than the abt box then?

ewok666
December 17th, 2015, 04:47 PM
So we can assume the bms box is no better than the abt box then?

I can't speak for the ABT box but the JB1 certainly performs. If you push the PSI too high then you will get more timing pull. They do tell you that the PSI you should choose depends on the fuel and the mods. Like I said, on my S3, up a hill I got (a VERY estimated) 200Nm/275Nm/300Nm for Stock/JB1/APR.

That said, again, the JB1 is $700 and the ABT is $3500 and the JB1 guys make no claims of talking to the CANbus

Aussie Audi Guy
December 17th, 2015, 04:57 PM
Some good info there, I havent opened the box up but interesting details, will question it with them when i get a chance.

Im not a spokes person for anyone, like i said before, ive had APR and MTM before on my vehicles. I tuned my car with ABT for warranty reasons after all the turbo issues and also all the Audi dealerships i spoke too recommended it.

Im happy to come up and take you up on the offer like you presented before or even try out the APR tune but the turbo issue is my concern, i havent had the time to come up to Sydney again, im sure you understand it is the silly season after all.

My question that lingers in the back of my mind is that if it is only doing just that, then why only 2 turbos blown out of all worldwide sales? shouldnt it be alot more if its that bad? for a company thats celebrating their 120th birthday, im sure they are doing something right.

After my last APR tune and the scandal hit it didnt really inspire confidence in me in going with them again. - AudiBoost - APR's reputation takes a major tumble - What the Audizine and VWVortex Audi/VW forums don't want you to read and the RSC exhaust scandal (http://www.audiboost.com/content.php?5499-APR-s-reputation-takes-a-major-tumble-What-the-Audizine-and-VWVortex-Audi-VW-forums-don-t-want-you-to-read-and-the-RSC-exhaust-scandal)

I'm sorry but I'm going to call BS on you.

You make a date after the silly season & lets prove it, with you car, with some data.

If ABT have only seen 2 turbo failures world wide, then they must have only sold 40 or 50 "tuning boxes" as the number through Audi's own warranty network is around that number. When we do hundreds of them, we see the proportionate number of failures.

If you want to bring up dirt or slander, please leave that to another thread.

Mac has paid good money (twice) and has switched. The results are there plain & simple. Tom also swapped one out (second box in the picture) - same results.

You claimed the unit was on the CAN BUS, you claimed it was made by Bosch, you have claimed many things, and now been disproven. We have now uncovered a much worse uncontrollable detonation issue due to "signal reprocessing" that could really put holes in pistons (don't worry about turbo failure).

Anyway, you have your thread - might pay to stick to it unless you can offer us up some FACTS please. I do not like to be drawn into a personal argument, I have never seen a problem with ABT's traditional flash tuning, their wheels or body kits. Nobody here seems to be saying they are a rubbish company, but you are implying APR blows up turbo's, makes bad exhausts & kills babies?

roadrunner
December 17th, 2015, 04:59 PM
I can't speak for the ABT box but the JB1 certainly performs. If you push the PSI too high then you will get more timing pull. They do tell you that the PSI you should choose depends on the fuel and the mods. Like I said, on my S3, up a hill I got (a VERY estimated) 200Nm/275Nm/300Nm for Stock/JB1/APR.

That said, again, the JB1 is $700 and the ABT is $3500 and the JB1 guys make no claims of talking to the CANbus

JB1 do claim to be able to control fuel though. Their unit plugs into a fuel related sensor (rail pressure), which none of the other tuning boxes do.

WarwickL
December 17th, 2015, 05:06 PM
kills babies?

Hey, stop right now, VAG own that ;)

Edit - sheesh, that sounded like the Spice Girls !

ewok666
December 17th, 2015, 05:27 PM
JB1 do claim to be able to control fuel though. Their unit plugs into a fuel related sensor (rail pressure), which none of the other tuning boxes do.

They claim, and I assume they do, manipulate rail pressure to prevent the ECU from having to do adaptations (god knows if I remembered that correctly!). They also claim that they have the software ready to control AFR and are working on the harness upgrade via either an added OEM plug or a positap. They're also open about what you should and should not do to avoid excessive timing pull.

This is from George re the fuel trim: "The fuel open loop is the rail pressure add to boost relationship. We cannot go into how it exactly works because no other piggy back has it.
What it does is add fuel pressure when the JB adds boost over stock. This rail pressure point more or less matches the fuel needs for the extra boost without having the ECU do a adaption. When lowering the boost below default it needs to be adjusted otherwise the ECU will have to do a negative fuel trim (i.e. open the injector less than its programmed for due to over fueling). It is not a critical thing but the car does not drive as smooth.

If you leave open loop to 0 the ECU will adapt like other piggy backs by seeing a lean condition at the lambda first then add fuel, this is on going because its not a learnt adaption but a short term correction"

Mac79
December 17th, 2015, 05:34 PM
Another interesting piece of data for you all, my car was running 108 degrees standard with ABT box, more when I pushed a little harder. Since APR tune car is down to 99 daily driving. a 10% difference in engine temperature baseline.....

Remarcabull
December 17th, 2015, 05:51 PM
I'm sorry but I'm going to call BS on you.

You make a date after the silly season & lets prove it, with you car, with some data.

If ABT have only seen 2 turbo failures world wide, then they must have only sold 40 or 50 "tuning boxes" as the number through Audi's own warranty network is around that number. When we do hundreds of them, we see the proportionate number of failures.

If you want to bring up dirt or slander, please leave that to another thread.

Mac has paid good money (twice) and has switched. The results are there plain & simple. Tom also swapped one out (second box in the picture) - same results.

You claimed the unit was on the CAN BUS, you claimed it was made by Bosch, you have claimed many things, and now been disproven. We have now uncovered a much worse uncontrollable detonation issue due to "signal reprocessing" that could really put holes in pistons (don't worry about turbo failure).

Anyway, you have your thread - might pay to stick to it unless you can offer us up some FACTS please. I do not like to be drawn into a personal argument, I have never seen a problem with ABT's traditional flash tuning, their wheels or body kits. Nobody here seems to be saying they are a rubbish company, but you are implying APR blows up turbo's, makes bad exhausts & kills babies?
Partially true, I also cbf wasting my time going up to Sydney for you. You have the results from the maha in Sydney anyway. You seem to have all the data you need from those two units there really isn't a point in needing more,
I have my information the engineers gave not only to myself but to other forum members as well. Why don't you email them or call them and discuss it, as I would think from a product sales point it would be in your interests to do so rather than mine as a customer.

No slander, just the truth as to what is a sad story, as those engineers who worked so hard on their tunes and did a great job nearly lost their jobs. Hard to gain my trust after but it may seem like a common game car tuners play.

They kill bugs too,a lot of bugs. Don't forget the poor bugs.

Sent from my HTC_0P6B using Tapatalk

roadrunner
December 17th, 2015, 06:14 PM
Partially true, I also cbf wasting my time going up to Sydney for you. You have the results from the maha in Sydney anyway. You seem to have all the data you need from those two units there really isn't a point in needing more,
I have my information the engineers gave not only to myself but to other forum members as well. Why don't you email them or call them and discuss it, as I would think from a product sales point it would be in your interests to do so rather than mine as a customer.

No slander, just the truth as to what is a sad story, as those engineers who worked so hard on their tunes and did a great job nearly lost their jobs. Hard to gain my trust after but it may seem like a common game car tuners play.

They kill bugs too,a lot of bugs. Don't forget the poor bugs.

Sent from my HTC_0P6B using Tapatalk

You should be thankful that HP has taken time to dyno, test and pull apart the ABT units.

You still believe your ABT engineers even after:
- Proven not to be Bosch
- No CANBus integration, just 7 wire feeds.
- No fuel control
- ABT dangerous timing pulls and AFR's
- lower than advertised performance

Based on the evidence I'd be pulling that ABT outta my car ASAP and requesting a refund.

Remarcabull
December 17th, 2015, 06:30 PM
You should be thankful that HP has taken time to dyno, test and pull apart the ABT units.

You still believe your ABT engineers even after:
- Proven not to be Bosch
- No CANBus integration, just 7 wire feeds.
- No fuel control
- ABT dangerous timing pulls and AFR's
- lower than advertised performance

Based on the evidence I'd be pulling that ABT outta my car ASAP and requesting a refund.
Not really, it's been in his own interests to prove his product is better than the rest to increase sales. Will wait for abt to respond.

Sent from my HTC_0P6B using Tapatalk

Aussie Audi Guy
December 17th, 2015, 08:28 PM
JB1 do claim to be able to control fuel though. Their unit plugs into a fuel related sensor (rail pressure), which none of the other tuning boxes do.

Yes, correct (and not only the JB1 I understand). Some boxes can up the fuel pressure by sending the sensor a manipulated signal saying pressure is lower than it is (exactly the same as the boost sensor trick). More fuel goes in when the injector gets switched on. What it can't change is when the injector fires or for how long. The old diesel tuning boxes (and current ones) do that, when injector opens, more fuel pressure, bigger bang, more power. They also suffer from high EGT's without control to. More modern the ECU, the harder to trick!

Aussie Audi Guy
December 17th, 2015, 08:30 PM
P.S. I also call fuel control like I call boost control, not a falsified signal to hold things on open longer or with more pressure without the other ECU inputs controlling the outcomes.

roadrunner
December 17th, 2015, 08:52 PM
Yes, correct (and not only the JB1 I understand). Some boxes can up the fuel pressure by sending the sensor a manipulated signal saying pressure is lower than it is (exactly the same as the boost sensor trick). More fuel goes in when the injector gets switched on. What it can't change is when the injector fires or for how long. The old diesel tuning boxes (and current ones) do that, when injector opens, more fuel pressure, bigger bang, more power. They also suffer from high EGT's without control to. More modern the ECU, the harder to trick!
Yes. Burger (JB1) doesn't claim to be what it isn't. Their BMW JB4 is on another level though. IMO the JB1 is a moderate tune for a reasonable price (good bang for buck), although I'd still be concerned as to safety. APR, Revo, GIAC are premium.

mp2811
December 17th, 2015, 08:58 PM
That's significant increase between tunes. I read this week one guy switched stage 2 revo to APR on his mk7R and extremely happy with results too!

Seems APR only ones putting out both the 1/4 mile times and dyno numbers so far.

Thanks guy for your in depth explanations and investigation into the tuning box too, very interesting.

domino_z
December 18th, 2015, 09:15 AM
Another interesting piece of data for you all, my car was running 108 degrees standard with ABT box, more when I pushed a little harder. Since APR tune car is down to 99 daily driving. a 10% difference in engine temperature baseline.....

That's because you didn't install the ABT fender vents bro to vent the underbody temps from all those wiring looms

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/17/e6abe6a7f446307224051fdee5ec77e3.jpg

domino_z
December 18th, 2015, 09:16 AM
Whenever I think of piggy backs...

http://youtu.be/VGtImIP6j3A

roadrunner
December 18th, 2015, 09:29 AM
That's because you didn't install the ABT fender vents bro to vent the underbody temps from all those wiring looms


ABT fender vents are a must to help keep the massive Bosch ECU's CPU cool....actually with the ABT unit it may be best to run without a bonnet

ewok666
December 18th, 2015, 09:42 AM
Another interesting piece of data for you all, my car was running 108 degrees standard with ABT box, more when I pushed a little harder. Since APR tune car is down to 99 daily driving. a 10% difference in engine temperature baseline.....

I can confirm the car runs cooler than i did with the JB1 but it ALSO runs cooler than stock. On stock I easily got over 100 even in Winter....for what Winter really is here in Sydney but still. It even did this at low load, stop and go traffic where teh JB1 would have done nothing. Makes me wonder why when APR tuned it would run cooler than stock.

roadrunner
December 18th, 2015, 09:44 AM
I can confirm the car runs cooler than i did with the JB1 but it ALSO runs cooler than stock. On stock I easily got over 100 even in Winter....for what Winter really is here in Sydney but still. It even did this at low load, stop and go traffic where teh JB1 would have done nothing. Makes me wonder why when APR tuned it would run cooler than stock.
They may up the water pump. IIRC the same as the car does in Dynamic mode

ido09s
December 18th, 2015, 09:49 AM
good to see the **** heads in this place still carrying on like children and still showing their strong allegiance to their tune of choice. I cant believe this dick swinging contest is still going on though

And I also don't know what you guys expected from the dyno results given the dyno it ran on. As soon as I saw the business logo I was sceptical BUT props to Guy for offering to take their car to another dyno though to try and prove a point. As I suspected no AFR's on the print outs lol

You would all be better off renting out Sydney Dragway and getting some real world results as everyone knows dyno's are just tuning tools

WarwickL
December 18th, 2015, 09:55 AM
I see memes and I think of Internet tunes ;)

roadrunner
December 18th, 2015, 10:00 AM
good to see the **** heads in this place still carrying on like children and still showing their strong allegiance to their tune of choice. I cant believe this dick swinging contest is still going on though

And I also don't know what you guys expected from the dyno results given the dyno it ran on. As soon as I saw the business logo I was sceptical BUT props to Guy for offering to take their car to another dyno though to try and prove a point. As I suspected no AFR's on the print outs lol

You would all be better off renting out Sydney Dragway and getting some real world results as everyone knows dyno's are just tuning tools

Drag an SQ5?

ewok666
December 18th, 2015, 10:01 AM
They may up the water pump. IIRC the same as the car does in Dynamic mode

Could well be but (from a thread here about a year and a half ago) it seems normal, untuned figured are maxing between 105 and 115 when pushing the car.

ido09s
December 18th, 2015, 10:41 AM
lol the fun Police.


Drag an SQ5?

its gone, sold it for something a little more appropriate. I needed something that could tow considerably more than it was able to legally. Happy to join in to make up numbers though as I have the Nissan I could bring ;)

Mac79
December 18th, 2015, 10:49 AM
Given I ran the 2 different tunes back to back and dyno's were done back to back under same conditions with same fuel on same dyno I find your perspective interesting. I had no preference on the tunes either way before buying however after now having run both (I think there is one other who has done the same) I am well placed to actually advise what they feel like from a daily drive perspective and when pushing hard as I ran the ABT unit on track and will be doing the same with the APR tune.

If you look at the dyno's from GT Auto to get a comparison they match what the dyno run was at HP, GT Auto are completely independent and were only doing a power run at my request after I had the ABT installed. HP dyno similar to GT Auto.....just a coincidence? I think not.





good to see the **** heads in this place still carrying on like children and still showing their strong allegiance to their tune of choice. I cant believe this dick swinging contest is still going on though

And I also don't know what you guys expected from the dyno results given the dyno it ran on. As soon as I saw the business logo I was sceptical BUT props to Guy for offering to take their car to another dyno though to try and prove a point. As I suspected no AFR's on the print outs lol

You would all be better off renting out Sydney Dragway and getting some real world results as everyone knows dyno's are just tuning tools

roadrunner
December 18th, 2015, 10:57 AM
Given I ran the 2 different tunes back to back and dyno's were done back to back under same conditions with same fuel on same dyno I find your perspective interesting. I had no preference on the tunes either way before buying however after now having run both (I think there is one other who has done the same) I am well placed to actually advise what they feel like from a daily drive perspective and when pushing hard as I ran the ABT unit on track and will be doing the same with the APR tune.

If you look at the dyno's from GT Auto to get a comparison they match what the dyno run was at HP, GT Auto are completely independent and were only doing a power run at my request after I had the ABT installed. HP dyno similar to GT Auto.....just a coincidence? I think not.

I also have no preference other than flash is the better way to go. Unfortunately we don't get GIAC or Unitronic here in Oz as would be good if things were a bit more competitive in the flash market. My problem with ABT is that their claims are BS.

Alister
December 18th, 2015, 11:07 AM
Unfortunately we don't get GIAC or Unitronic here in Oz as would be good if things were a bit more competitive in the flash market.

Last I heard there is still GIAC dealers in Australia - not sure where you are based but I think there is at least 3 in Melbourne and representatives in most other Australian cities (not sure about Adelaide or Darwin though).

ido09s
December 18th, 2015, 11:07 AM
Its harder on the hub dyno but I am sure there would be things that could be done to alter the outcomes.

So which dyno sheets are the correct ones? I don't see any back to back run sheets posted up.... maybe its just my work computer not showing them due to some internal setting, but I can see the 2 from the 8th October in your first post and the 'correct file' in post 4 of this thread.......

WarwickL
December 18th, 2015, 11:10 AM
Edit - never mind, non sponsor info

roadrunner
December 18th, 2015, 11:12 AM
Last I heard there is still GIAC dealers in Australia - not sure where you are based but I think there is at least 3 in Melbourne and representatives in most other Australian cities (not sure about Adelaide or Darwin though).

Yes, but they only offered a bench-flash. Perhaps it has changed now to OBD2.

ewok666
December 18th, 2015, 11:14 AM
Yes, but they only offered a bench-flash. Perhaps it has changed now to OBD2.

The real issue to me is that they're all taking us for a ride when it comes to pricing. At least the JB1 came from the US and the currency conversion was not 3:1

Mac79
December 18th, 2015, 11:55 AM
The 2 from the 8th october were the ABT power runs at Gt Auto, the "correct file" is the back to back ABT and APR runs run 2 days ago.


Its harder on the hub dyno but I am sure there would be things that could be done to alter the outcomes.

So which dyno sheets are the correct ones? I don't see any back to back run sheets posted up.... maybe its just my work computer not showing them due to some internal setting, but I can see the 2 from the 8th October in your first post and the 'correct file' in post 4 of this thread.......

ewok666
December 18th, 2015, 12:03 PM
The 2 from the 8th october were the ABT power runs at Gt Auto, the "correct file" is the back to back ABT and APR runs run 2 days ago.

I'm not a fan of ABT but I struggle to understand how the dyno comes back with numbers that are almost stock!?!

ido09s
December 18th, 2015, 01:32 PM
it doesn't really mean much unless you put up AFR's and boost maps with power and torque. For all we know it could have 10psi more boost in it.

It beats the hell out of me how people can sit here and carry on like they are without the full picture. But I guess that's what drives people today.

G_W_A
December 18th, 2015, 02:32 PM
Watching this with interest, really not sure why complete data isn't available in the first instance so that people can make an educated decision, thanks to all the contributors so far.

hogclacker
December 18th, 2015, 03:36 PM
I also have no preference other than flash is the better way to go. Unfortunately we don't get GIAC or Unitronic here in Oz as would be good if things were a bit more competitive in the flash market. My problem with ABT is that their claims are BS.

A Little off topic, but what ever happened to Viezu? I had their tune on my Mk6 Golf R but they seem to have dropped off the radar completely?

Aussie Audi Guy
December 18th, 2015, 04:50 PM
it doesn't really mean much unless you put up AFR's and boost maps with power and torque. For all we know it could have 10psi more boost in it.

It beats the hell out of me how people can sit here and carry on like they are without the full picture. But I guess that's what drives people today.

We do have all the AFR's (from the factory wideband next to the turbo) - this is for another tech article all together.

The target lambda we recorded (and where calibrators set it in a flash tune) , and you can see how it all ties in together & where knock control (timing) and lack of fuel control all contribute to component protection kicks in. You can see all the data we have is in ECU explorer (in German abbreviations) so it will take some time to break it down for an easy to understand article.

Check out all the dyno's they have posted showing AFR's -

Here is a sample of a Mainline dyno showing AFR's that a customer sent through (it is actually showing what a downpipe does on stage 1 tune, (but that is yet again another complete separate engineering topic) - our own car has been on Mainlines, Dynapacks & Maha's, and performs exactly the same. Hell, Motor magazine even paid Mainline to run our car for Hot Tuner this year.


24436

boltor
December 19th, 2015, 07:16 AM
Connected to the Can Bus? - not at all.

The Simos 12 / 18 has 2 wiring plugs, 105 pins & 91 pins (a fair few coming in & out of the ECU eh?)

On the fantastic giant loom, there are only 7 wires connected that intercept signal & control wires. It picks up its RPM signal via the hall sensor via pin 30/105, it intercepts the secondary lambda sensor 11/91 (would allow for a high flow catalyst or none), it interecpts various other map & boost control sensors.

It does not hook to the Can Bus system anywhere. It does not intercept or control injectors, valve lift, or any other associated items.

wow. i'm late to this thread, but thanks for posting this real info.

I looked again the ABT web site (https://www.abtsportsline.com.au/index.php/products/engine-technology) and found the following:

"Full integration and communication through the vehicles CAN-Bus system / connection & monitoring of vehicles built-in sensors. (e.g. revolution speed, airmass, coolant & intake temperatures, exhaust temperatures, vehicle speed, intake pressure, etc.)"

"CAN-Bus communication allows all functions in tuning software to be physically based, takes influencing factors in consideration, and allows to make adjustments like boost pressure, ignition timing, injected fuel quantity, maximum speed, change of V-max etc. All will be controlled by a seperate control unit."

Because of the ability to change the air / fuel mixture, optimized fuel consumption guaranteed."

So based on the tear down of the unit, it looks like the above is wrong (or I have been misinterpreting what is written).

I would really like to hear from ABT more directly on this. Guy - Is there any chance that they would be allowed to post their response directly on here? How can we get this?

AdamD
December 19th, 2015, 03:16 PM
I looked again the ABT web site (https://www.abtsportsline.com.au/index.php/products/engine-technology) and found the following:

"Full integration and communication through the vehicles CAN-Bus system / connection & monitoring of vehicles built-in sensors. (e.g. revolution speed, airmass, coolant & intake temperatures, exhaust temperatures, vehicle speed, intake pressure, etc.)"

"CAN-Bus communication allows all functions in tuning software to be physically based, takes influencing factors in consideration, and allows to make adjustments like boost pressure, ignition timing, injected fuel quantity, maximum speed, change of V-max etc. All will be controlled by a seperate control unit."

Because of the ability to change the air / fuel mixture, optimized fuel consumption guaranteed."

Based on the observations noted by Guy's tear-down, the above is a complete misrepresentation of the facts. The broken English on ABT's website doesn't help matters - sections read like they've been adapted from the German by Google Translate. Either way, as it stands, the professionalism and honesty of the outfit appears (to this observer) to be questionable.

dstama
December 19th, 2015, 10:10 PM
I'm definitely not pro ABT (nor anti ABT) but if the above is true then why is ACS in talks with them? Genuine question.. I just find this whole thing odd

boltor
December 19th, 2015, 10:54 PM
I just find this whole thing odd

same. why would they write something like this ... you would have to assume that, at some stage, someone would pull your unit apart to check.

Korny
December 20th, 2015, 12:42 AM
wow. i'm late to this thread, but thanks for posting this real info.

I looked again the ABT web site (https://www.abtsportsline.com.au/index.php/products/engine-technology) and found the following:

"Full integration and communication through the vehicles CAN-Bus system / connection & monitoring of vehicles built-in sensors. (e.g. revolution speed, airmass, coolant & intake temperatures, exhaust temperatures, vehicle speed, intake pressure, etc.)"

"CAN-Bus communication allows all functions in tuning software to be physically based, takes influencing factors in consideration, and allows to make adjustments like boost pressure, ignition timing, injected fuel quantity, maximum speed, change of V-max etc. All will be controlled by a seperate control unit."

Because of the ability to change the air / fuel mixture, optimized fuel consumption guaranteed."

So based on the tear down of the unit, it looks like the above is wrong (or I have been misinterpreting what is written).

I would really like to hear from ABT more directly on this. Guy - Is there any chance that they would be allowed to post their response directly on here? How can we get this?


Why wouldn't ABT respond on here? Richard, where are you? Come out and play... [emoji41]


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ewok666
December 20th, 2015, 10:17 AM
same. why would they write something like this ... you would have to assume that, at some stage, someone would pull your unit apart to check.

Ask someone at VW! They should have known someone would find out eventually...

I'm not saying ABT is a fake but if what guy is saying is true then I can't see how they're not.

Didn't someone say that ABT removed the speed limiter? How could they do that without CANBus integration?

T_S3
December 20th, 2015, 08:05 PM
Another interesting piece of data for you all, my car was running 108 degrees standard with ABT box, more when I pushed a little harder. Since APR tune car is down to 99 daily driving. a 10% difference in engine temperature baseline.....

Why did the tune drop it?
My car runs 108-112 without a tune. Ive always thought that was high?

ewok666
December 20th, 2015, 10:17 PM
Why did the tune drop it?
My car runs 108-112 without a tune. Ive always thought that was high?

roadrunner suggested something about the water pump but I don't know. My car went up to 115 on stock IIRC.

jaydece
December 20th, 2015, 10:54 PM
roadrunner suggested something about the water pump but I don't know. My car went up to 115 on stock IIRC.

Just like in my Subaru....I believe the tune changes the coolant temp table ranges and/or radiator fan table ranges.....this then allows the thermostat and/or fan to open/run earlier allowing coolant to flow and reduce temp at certain ranges/conditions....

Just my 5 cents....

roadrunner
December 21st, 2015, 06:01 AM
Why did the tune drop it?
My car runs 108-112 without a tune. Ive always thought that was high?
Not that high. BMW's IL6 turbo engine run around 120 as normal. Around 100-110 is good.

ido09s
December 21st, 2015, 07:55 AM
We do have all the AFR's (from the factory wideband next to the turbo) - this is for another tech article all together.

The target lambda we recorded (and where calibrators set it in a flash tune) , and you can see how it all ties in together & where knock control (timing) and lack of fuel control all contribute to component protection kicks in. You can see all the data we have is in ECU explorer (in German abbreviations) so it will take some time to break it down for an easy to understand article.

Check out all the dyno's they have posted showing AFR's -

Here is a sample of a Mainline dyno showing AFR's that a customer sent through (it is actually showing what a downpipe does on stage 1 tune, (but that is yet again another complete separate engineering topic) - our own car has been on Mainlines, Dynapacks & Maha's, and performs exactly the same. Hell, Motor magazine even paid Mainline to run our car for Hot Tuner this year.


24436

still no boost though and as you would know, its no use putting up part of the picture if you want compare tunes. The only way to compare apples with apples is to run the same boost values.

What I would like to know is how the hell anyone can lay claim to a Golf R making 750nm of torque ATW's???? Piss the torque figure off and put boost in there.

Just to I have this correct, I am old school, Lambda 1 is 14.7 and as you drop you take it as a percentage so 0.7 is 10.2:1? that's just ridiculously rich isn't it? or do these things like running fat with big timing values?

ewok666
December 21st, 2015, 09:07 AM
still no boost though and as you would know, its no use putting up part of the picture if you want compare tunes. The only way to compare apples with apples is to run the same boost values.

What I would like to know is how the hell anyone can lay claim to a Golf R making 750nm of torque ATW's???? Piss the torque figure off and put boost in there.

Just to I have this correct, I am old school, Lambda 1 is 14.7 and as you drop you take it as a percentage so 0.7 is 10.2:1? that's just ridiculously rich isn't it? or do these things like running fat with big timing values?

Who said 750Nm? Also, were those original dynos actually taken with downpipe and intake?

ido09s
December 21st, 2015, 09:19 AM
Who said 750Nm? Also, were those original dynos actually taken with downpipe and intake?

What's the measurement second from the bottom then?

ewok666
December 21st, 2015, 09:44 AM
What's the measurement second from the bottom then?

What graph and what measurement???

EDIT: sorry, found it ;-)

Can't see how those torque numbers even add up with the kw figures. That torque (600Nm) at that rev range (5500) should be close to 350kw shouldn't it?

Remarcabull
December 21st, 2015, 10:59 AM
What graph and what measurement???

EDIT: sorry, found it ;-)

Can't see how those torque numbers even add up with the kw figures. That torque (600Nm) at that rev range (5500) should be close to 350kw shouldn't it?

yeah, 750nm... 1st gear pull? something doesnt seem right there. Sheet says 4th gear. anyway, looks good with the downpipe fitted, much smoother.

ido09s
December 21st, 2015, 12:01 PM
Its a Golf R, not a Mack truck. I don't even think a first gear pull would result in 750nm would it? Clearly 3rd gear as it doesn't even make it to 165kph which leaves the entire dyno graph in question in my eyes. 4th would go further than 165kph wouldn't it?

And this is exactly why I make the comments I always make. Dyno's are nothing but a tuning tool and should not be relied on unless its back to back with no change of anything at all. Same fuel, same tyre pressures, same atmospheric conditions, same operator, same ramp rates. And even then its really only really good for back to back comparisons to show that an adjustment to the tune has done something.

ewok666
December 21st, 2015, 12:21 PM
Its a Golf R, not a Mack truck. I don't even think a first gear pull would result in 750nm would it? Clearly 3rd gear as it doesn't even make it to 165kph which leaves the entire dyno graph in question in my eyes. 4th would go further than 165kph wouldn't it?

And this is exactly why I make the comments I always make. Dyno's are nothing but a tuning tool and should not be relied on unless its back to back with no change of anything at all. Same fuel, same tyre pressures, same atmospheric conditions, same operator, same ramp rates. And even then its really only really good for back to back comparisons to show that an adjustment to the tune has done something.

I don't think 4th goes much higher. I hear what you're saying about dynos but these (the first few in this thread) were supposedly back to back. Either way a number of dynos, even under various conditions is still better than the usual "Oh my god, this ABT tune is so fast" and "man, my APR tune smokes your ABT" etc.

If you look at enough dyno results it all seems to average out and the BS ones stick out like a sore thumb.

Korny
December 22nd, 2015, 11:53 PM
I'm happy for someone to dyno my vehicle under any conditions - I don't give a rats arse as to the APR vs. ABT war. [emoji41]


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T_S3
December 23rd, 2015, 09:11 AM
Lets get it done!


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domino_z
December 23rd, 2015, 11:05 AM
That dyno is measuring tractive effort on the rollers and not actual wheel torque

Aussie Audi Guy
December 23rd, 2015, 02:16 PM
Why did the tune drop it?
My car runs 108-112 without a tune. Ive always thought that was high?

Massive timing pull - This poor car was just generating lots of unnecessary combustion temps & pressures - detonating its head off.

Aussie Audi Guy
December 23rd, 2015, 02:18 PM
wow. i'm late to this thread, but thanks for posting this real info.

I looked again the ABT web site (https://www.abtsportsline.com.au/index.php/products/engine-technology) and found the following:

"Full integration and communication through the vehicles CAN-Bus system / connection & monitoring of vehicles built-in sensors. (e.g. revolution speed, airmass, coolant & intake temperatures, exhaust temperatures, vehicle speed, intake pressure, etc.)"

"CAN-Bus communication allows all functions in tuning software to be physically based, takes influencing factors in consideration, and allows to make adjustments like boost pressure, ignition timing, injected fuel quantity, maximum speed, change of V-max etc. All will be controlled by a seperate control unit."

Because of the ability to change the air / fuel mixture, optimized fuel consumption guaranteed."

So based on the tear down of the unit, it looks like the above is wrong (or I have been misinterpreting what is written).

I would really like to hear from ABT more directly on this. Guy - Is there any chance that they would be allowed to post their response directly on here? How can we get this?


Doesn't worry me. If anyone knows an independant automotive electronic engineer who would like to verify it, please suggest.

Simply its not a very complicated device at all & as we all suspected, its not another "engine ECU" sitting on the canbus.

Aussie Audi Guy
December 23rd, 2015, 02:34 PM
still no boost though and as you would know, its no use putting up part of the picture if you want compare tunes. The only way to compare apples with apples is to run the same boost values.

What I would like to know is how the hell anyone can lay claim to a Golf R making 750nm of torque ATW's???? Piss the torque figure off and put boost in there.

Just to I have this correct, I am old school, Lambda 1 is 14.7 and as you drop you take it as a percentage so 0.7 is 10.2:1? that's just ridiculously rich isn't it? or do these things like running fat with big timing values?

If you go into the engine bay of one of these things (Do you own one?) there is no boost reference point without piercing the manifold for a boost tap - thats why we measure boost via the onboard MAP sensors.

Not my dyno, so I can't answer the rest of your questions sorry (just posted it because it was a Mainline which is more common). It seems like it does not matter what type of dyno plot you see, you will never be happy with it.

Korny
December 23rd, 2015, 05:04 PM
I'm happy for someone to dyno my vehicle under any conditions - I don't give a rats arse as to the APR vs. ABT war. [emoji41]


Sent from Korny's iPad using Tapatalk

All I know is that the car responds considerably better than stock and sounds considerably better than stock and it's bloody fun to drive! [emoji41]


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Korny
December 23rd, 2015, 05:07 PM
Lets get it done!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tee, is that directed to me? Where can we do some measurements? I'm genuinely open to scrutiny. Nothing to lose. If the ABT stats fall short of that claimed or of APR etc. then so be it. [emoji41]


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Aussie Audi Guy
December 23rd, 2015, 05:43 PM
Tee, is that directed to me? Where can we do some measurements? I'm genuinely open to scrutiny. Nothing to lose. If the ABT stats fall short of that claimed or of APR etc. then so be it. [emoji41]


Sent from Korny's iPad using Tapatalk

Lets sort something for the new year Korny - you in Sydney?

T_S3
December 23rd, 2015, 05:48 PM
Nah man, everyone's been banging on about figures for a while now. And I've suggested a dyno day a few times but no ones seem to want to put there money where there mouth is. Well I mean it hasn't actually eventuated. I can talk with ACS about using there dyno for it. There would be a price to use it. Not sure what it would be but we would have pay something for the use of it and the operators. Then we could get few cars in on the same day with different tunes, all fill up at the same servo down the road and let "dynos roll"


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Korny
December 23rd, 2015, 05:55 PM
Nah man, everyone's been banging on about figures for a while now. And I've suggested a dyno day a few times but no ones seem to want to put there money where there mouth is. Well I mean it hasn't actually eventuated. I can talk with ACS about using there dyno for it. There would be a price to use it. Not sure what it would be but we would have pay something for the use of it and the operators. Then we could get few cars in on the same day with different tunes, all fill up at the same servo down the road and let "dynos roll"


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I am happy to pay...it's only money. [emoji41]


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Korny
December 23rd, 2015, 05:57 PM
Lets sort something for the new year Korny - you in Sydney?

Yes, mate...sandwiched between Liverpool and Bankstown. [emoji41]


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mp2811
December 23rd, 2015, 06:04 PM
All I know is that the car responds considerably better than stock and sounds considerably better than stock and it's bloody fun to drive! [emoji41]


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Korny, couldn't agree more! As long as you're happy with your car, it's performance and sound and no issues, that's all that matters.

peterp1972
December 23rd, 2015, 11:47 PM
If you do go ahead with a dyno day put me down for some runs. Would like to get some comparitive figures and logging to look through. Boost levels used by the various tunes

peterp1972
December 23rd, 2015, 11:48 PM
And i dont mind travelling up to Sydney

T_S3
December 24th, 2015, 12:04 PM
Can I get an idea of people willing to dyno there car and with what tunes?

roadrunner
December 24th, 2015, 12:15 PM
Can I get an idea of people willing to dyno there car and with what tunes?
S3 sedan with APR S1 + DSG, no DP - Sydney

mobs
December 24th, 2015, 12:25 PM
I'm in if you want a stock 206kw baseline... :oops:

Fluffmeister
December 24th, 2015, 02:00 PM
Same for my 210kw!

Korny
December 24th, 2015, 04:25 PM
I'm in...ABT ECU & DOWN PIPE and of course the "go fast" Misano Red! [emoji41]


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peterp1972
December 24th, 2015, 08:07 PM
Also in S3 Sportback manual. MRC tune only

T_S3
December 24th, 2015, 08:38 PM
Same for my 210kw!


I'm in if you want a stock 206kw baseline... :oops:


S3 sedan with APR S1 + DSG, no DP - Sydney


Also in S3 Sportback manual. MRC tune only


Ok, so about 6 cars so far. Anyone willing to jump on board with just ABT and APR with DP?

Mobs and Fluttermister, I dyno'd my car at ACS earlier this year so I have a base line figure to work off but you're more then welcome to join to get yours. there might even be some variances as it was a little cooler when I did mine. I'll speak with them after the xmas madness and try sore out a time and date but with the amount of cars so far this could be an all day event.

T_S3
December 24th, 2015, 08:44 PM
I'm in...ABT ECU & DOWN PIPE and of course the "go fast" Misano Red! [emoji41]


Sent from Korny's iPad using Tapatalk

Missed you in the tag mate.

Fluffmeister
December 24th, 2015, 10:20 PM
Ok, so about 6 cars so far. Anyone willing to jump on board with just ABT and APR with DP?

Mobs and Fluttermister, I dyno'd my car at ACS earlier this year so I have a base line figure to work off but you're more then welcome to join to get yours. there might even be some variances as it was a little cooler when I did mine. I'll speak with them after the xmas madness and try sore out a time and date but with the amount of cars so far this could be an all day event.
Happy just to come along. Just offering it up for baseline data.

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dstama
December 24th, 2015, 11:01 PM
Yeah I'd be keen to come along if it was open to others to watch

Just a stock S3 here so can't add much more value than the above

domino_z
December 25th, 2015, 12:11 PM
Ask one of the Sydney rs3 guys to join as well, would be good to see how power delivery compares

justinbond007
December 25th, 2015, 04:11 PM
Like to see results!

ewok666
December 26th, 2015, 09:51 AM
Anyone with a JB1 by any chance? Unfortunately I've sold mine otherwise I'd be up for it!

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T_S3
December 26th, 2015, 01:36 PM
Ask one of the Sydney rs3 guys to join as well, would be good to see how power delivery compares

You should come up from Melbourne.

kevin87
December 26th, 2015, 05:25 PM
I've got jb1 in Sydney - how much will said dyno run cost?

Aussie Audi Guy
December 30th, 2015, 02:14 PM
Let me work on it in the new year - we are not back until the 11th (apart from dyno testing my S1 to make sure Audi is giving me my promised 170kw's :) )

Aussie Audi Guy
January 22nd, 2016, 04:35 PM
Will start to work on the dyno day in the next couple of weeks.

Other good news is the final MY16 S3 ecu calibration has been finalised & is due for release shortly :)

belle_tb
January 22nd, 2016, 05:08 PM
Depends on price. I don't have a tune though :(

Adam Ciaccia
January 23rd, 2016, 06:19 PM
I'll be watching this thread rather closely indeed

Remarcabull
January 23rd, 2016, 06:27 PM
Just spoke to VW, apparently they are cracking down on any mods on their vehicles and are not hesitating in voiding warranty even noting down on the cars history so much as a after market airfilter. I guess they have lost so much money over this emissions scandal they are trying to keep all costs down.

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Korny
January 23rd, 2016, 07:37 PM
Just spoke to VW, apparently they are cracking down on any mods on their vehicles and are not hesitating in voiding warranty even noting down on the cars history so much as a after market airfilter. I guess they have lost so much money over this emissions scandal they are trying to keep all costs down.

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Know your rights and gain a friend at the Dept. of Fair Trading! [emoji41]


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WarwickL
January 23rd, 2016, 08:22 PM
FFS - seriously :(

Remarcabull
January 23rd, 2016, 08:30 PM
FFS - seriously :(
Yep to the point they will question your cat back exhaust!

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WarwickL
January 23rd, 2016, 08:31 PM
Yep to the point they will question your cat back exhaust!

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Questions are irrelevant

Adam Ciaccia
January 24th, 2016, 02:23 PM
I can smell so much rubbish. I had a golf gti Pirelli edition that I had warranty issues due to the car being tuned. Remap, turbo back exhaust, air intake and the list goes on. These particular car had issues with missfiring high in the rev range. Regardless I have a letter from VW Australia stating my engine and drive train warranty was void. My DSG was one of those that would **** down while driving, the car was a lemon but due to the data they removed from the ECU no warranty. However I removed all the parts and sold them and traded the car in, the guy that bought the car was granted the remainder of the factory warranty after he bought it? Go figure? There is a specialist legal firm in Melbourne that deals with this stuff that said I would win if I presented my car in factory condition regardless of what the dealers said about warranty or not. However what I will say is the fight to win isn't worth the stress which I why I traded the car in.

The dealer can take what ever notes that want, they can pull what ever data they like, fact is they can't void your warranty on your gearbox if you changed your exhaust or your engine if you put lowered springs in etx. What remapping the ECU does is give them evidence to fight it, but if push came to shove and lawyers get involved they'll have to warranty your car but you will have to pay your legal fees. For me, it's 6 of one half dozen of the other. Do you research on a product and decided what's right for your car and choose the brand you trust if the **** hits the fan.

my five cents.

ido09s
January 27th, 2016, 10:06 AM
If you go into the engine bay of one of these things (Do you own one?) there is no boost reference point without piercing the manifold for a boost tap - thats why we measure boost via the onboard MAP sensors.

Not my dyno, so I can't answer the rest of your questions sorry (just posted it because it was a Mainline which is more common). It seems like it does not matter what type of dyno plot you see, you will never be happy with it.

I am only in this for the ****s and giggles now as I don't even own an Audi anymore.

But, your a tuner, and I would expect you to understand why all parameters are needed when determining what tune to choose. Its all well and good to say your car makes more power, is faster etc, for all we know you could have 10psi more boost in it than any other offering on the market

mp2811
January 27th, 2016, 02:46 PM
I am only in this for the ****s and giggles now as I don't even own an Audi anymore.

But, your a tuner, and I would expect you to understand why all parameters are needed when determining what tune to choose. Its all well and good to say your car makes more power, is faster etc, for all we know you could have 10psi more boost in it than any other offering on the market


I believe APR is running approxiamtley 27psi boost stage 1 abd 26 PSI stage 2. That's what I've been told by members in USA that have had both and have boost gauge. I've heard of 2 other custom tunes in UK both running 22 PSI stage 1 tune.

Personally I'd be happier if it was lower boost but I'm sure APR have tested everything throughly and still have turbo within limits and efficiency.

I have no idea about REVO, GIAC , Eurodyne, ABT though.

ido09s
January 27th, 2016, 03:09 PM
I believe APR is running approxiamtley 27psi boost stage 1 abd 26 PSI stage 2. That's what I've been told by members in USA that have had both and have boost gauge. I've heard of 2 other custom tunes in UK both running 22 PSI stage 1 tune.

Personally I'd be happier if it was lower boost but I'm sure APR have tested everything throughly and still have turbo within limits and efficiency.

I have no idea about REVO, GIAC , Eurodyne, ABT though.

that's a hell of a difference if your supply of information comes correctly. Regardless of efficiency it may well explain quite a bit

I would always pick the lower of the boost tunes if it was me. It puts strain on everything and at the end of the day is not what your after in a daily driver. I can run 24psi in my car (a Nissan yes) but always choose to turn the boost controller off when driving it around the streets. There is no need for it. Unfortunately turning down the boost is not something than any of these tunes would give you the option of doing.

ant86
January 27th, 2016, 04:07 PM
My JB1 was reporting 22-23psi using +5 setting I believe.

mp2811
January 27th, 2016, 06:35 PM
Those 2 custom tunes in uk amazing results too. Unicorn stage 1 getting 400-410 lbs torque and 350-365 HP. Proven 11.9 1/4 mile times.
The other tune running 1.5 bar just under 22psi stage 2 hardware and IC getting 410ps and 550nm! I think that's a great tune/set up!

so shows plenty of power/torque available without running crazy high boost! I'm pretty sure I read few people saying eurodyne running 28-29 psi!!

belle_tb
January 27th, 2016, 11:09 PM
Im interested in hearing from people who have a tune - mainly APR stage 1 and JB1. Things like reliablity, reflashing to stock prior to services and warranty, km on car since tune etc etc it would be cool to have a thread dedicated to it without everyone giving lectures lol

although unfortunately, many members want to keep it quiet for obvious reasons which is understandable

I have done a lot of research but haven't found a solid group of info

mp2811
January 28th, 2016, 01:00 AM
I have APR stage 1 on MK7R since it was released Dec 14, no issues at all. I've probably done 10-15K Km since tune. I got it done with about 6K on clock.

I don't get car serviced at VW so don't need to get flashed to stock. If I was getting VW/AUDI serviced by them then absolutley flash back to stock before.

Regarding Warranty, Guy on here has posted saying he's tested with Audi and no trace/TD1 flag on car once tune removed. You can either believe him or not. I know of one person that had turbo replaced under warranty and they removed tune obviously didn;t show TD1.

Regarding warranty that can't be confirmed 100% though. APR will get you best results for tune, but costs more. JB1 aparently less likely to void warranty but can't confirm that 100% either. Like others will say, be willing to void warranty if you tune/modify.

The improvemnt in driving with tune to stock night and day and for me it's worth it.


Im interested in hearing from people who have a tune - mainly APR stage 1 and JB1. Things like reliablity, reflashing to stock prior to services and warranty, km on car since tune etc etc it would be cool to have a thread dedicated to it without everyone giving lectures lol

although unfortunately, many members want to keep it quiet for obvious reasons which is understandable

I have done a lot of research but haven't found a solid group of info

belle_tb
January 28th, 2016, 01:55 PM
I have APR stage 1 on MK7R since it was released Dec 14, no issues at all. I've probably done 10-15K Km since tune. I got it done with about 6K on clock.

I don't get car serviced at VW so don't need to get flashed to stock. If I was getting VW/AUDI serviced by them then absolutley flash back to stock before.

Regarding Warranty, Guy on here has posted saying he's tested with Audi and no trace/TD1 flag on car once tune removed. You can either believe him or not. I know of one person that had turbo replaced under warranty and they removed tune obviously didn;t show TD1.

Regarding warranty that can't be confirmed 100% though. APR will get you best results for tune, but costs more. JB1 aparently less likely to void warranty but can't confirm that 100% either. Like others will say, be willing to void warranty if you tune/modify.

The improvemnt in driving with tune to stock night and day and for me it's worth it.

Thank you. Much appreciated :) :)

Korny
January 28th, 2016, 07:28 PM
Tune and down pipe in situ and I haven't, nor will I remove, to preserve warranty...too much effort.

I've had mine modified for over 6 months / 10,000kms and it is a smooth as the much lauded baby's bottom...no issues at all.

As many others have stated just be prepared to invalidate your warranty if you modify; regardless of whether you can flash back or not.
Otherwise choose a faster car in the first place...? [emoji41]


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ewok666
January 28th, 2016, 10:26 PM
Tune and down pipe in situ and I haven't, nor will I remove, to preserve warranty...too much effort.

I've had mine modified for over 6 months / 10,000kms and it is a smooth as the much lauded baby's bottom...no issues at all.

As many others have stated just be prepared to invalidate your warranty if you modify; regardless of whether you can flash back or not.
Otherwise choose a faster car in the first place...? [emoji41]


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I have said this before and I will say it again:

Audi MUST (that is must as in no other options) design car to withstand running it at hundreds of km at full throttle burning 20+ L per km and stressing the engine as much as you possible can. Others have claimed that this is not the case for Autobahn driving but I guess that depends on your style. so, with that said: driving in Australia is very much like a walk in the park (which is why we have all these issues with carbon build up!) so I'd take this all with a grain of salt: If it can survive my (and MANY!!!!!! others) driving style in Germany then driving is Australia is not an issue unless you are trackingit !!!)

belle_tb
January 28th, 2016, 11:03 PM
Damn! Should have bought that Lambo...or maybe the RS7....lol!!

Im just curious to people's experiences; )

ewok666
January 28th, 2016, 11:15 PM
Price and visibility (or lack there of) aren't that important to me.

Ain't the world a wonderful place that we all choose what suits our needs/wants ;)

While we are at that subject: You seem to be happy to let this work in your favour but attack other when they disagree. Why?

I have an APR tune but I do agree that the Price for it is BS. I CAN (yes, I have the cash!) spend the money and more but that doesn't mean that a price hike from $700 US to $2000 AU is justified. Do you think so? If you do, get out a calculator, find the exchange rate and do me a favour: write an ubiased paragraph detailing why a software base patch (it really is not much more) is worth having a nearly 200% price hike.

WarwickL
January 28th, 2016, 11:16 PM
While we are at that subject: You seem to be happy to let this work in your favour but attack other when they disagree. Why?

I have an APR tune but I do agree that the Price for it BS. I CAN (yes, I have the cash!) spend the money and more but that doesn't mean that a price hike from $700 US to $2000 AU is justified. Do you think so? If you do, get out a calculator, find the exchange rate and do me a favour: wite an ubiased paragraph detailing why a software base patch (it really is not much more) is worth having a nearly 200% price hike.

Can't do it????? How about you shut up?!?

Yep

Turps ;)

ewok666
January 28th, 2016, 11:19 PM
Yep

Turps ;)

No offense but you must be into turps yourself......

I come with a valid comment and you do nothing but offend others. Why?

belle_tb
January 28th, 2016, 11:22 PM
As said in the other post:

CALM DOWN GUYS!!! Please?

Pretty please?

Pretty pretty please?

ewok666
January 28th, 2016, 11:39 PM
As said in the other post:

CALM DOWN GUYS!!! Please?

Pretty please?


Pretty pretty please?

Thanks Belle, an I really do mean that. I was brought up in a culture where you called BS. If you didn't how would things ever get better??? So, if you just go along you are effectively accepting the status quo as the right thing. But....is it????

itaplikeabiatch
January 29th, 2016, 12:03 AM
they do it because they can. simple as that

jnrdavo
January 29th, 2016, 07:18 AM
get back on topic guys and leave the insults out of the thread.

ewok666
January 29th, 2016, 07:37 AM
get back on topic guys and leave the insults out of the thread.

Good idea. What happened to the APR, ABT, JB1(?) dyno day? ;-)

Korny
January 30th, 2016, 11:21 PM
I'm still in...


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Aussie Audi Guy
February 2nd, 2016, 07:57 PM
Good idea. What happened to the APR, ABT, JB1(?) dyno day? ;-)

Sorry boy's - been a little tied up with all the projects going on - I'll talk to BWA shortly!

Remarcabull
February 2nd, 2016, 08:04 PM
Sorry boy's - been a little tied up with all the projects going on - I'll talk to BWA shortly!
Any RS3 tune news while your at it?

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Aussie Audi Guy
February 3rd, 2016, 08:59 AM
Any RS3 tune news while your at it?

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Working on it, along with TTS MQB, big turbo S1 & bigger turbo Golf R. Just a few of the projects on today.

AudiNut
February 3rd, 2016, 09:04 AM
Working on it, along with TTS MQB, big turbo S1 & bigger turbo Golf R. Just a few of the projects on today.

Guy does that also include the RSQ3?

Aussie Audi Guy
February 3rd, 2016, 09:09 AM
Guy does that also include the RSQ3?

Yep - with the RS3 - the calibrators are finalising a few things before it goes to marketing - not sure on an exact timeline but its really close!

AudiNut
February 3rd, 2016, 09:13 AM
Exciting news.

Keep us posted, along with any performance numbers you may know.

aantss
February 3rd, 2016, 09:59 AM
Yep - with the RS3 - the calibrators are finalising a few things before it goes to marketing - not sure on an exact timeline but its really close!

Any info/release timeline on the flex fueling?

Aussie Audi Guy
February 3rd, 2016, 10:39 AM
Got the boys working on a dyno day for us - getting tech information on what the MAHA can pull directly from the OBD port on the 8V as well!

Remarcabull
February 3rd, 2016, 10:43 AM
Working on it, along with TTS MQB, big turbo S1 & bigger turbo Golf R. Just a few of the projects on today.

And then Big turbo RS3? got to tune this puppy to be 3 seconds 0-100!

peterp1972
February 20th, 2016, 12:35 PM
Any update on the Dyno day?

roadrunner
February 20th, 2016, 03:25 PM
Any update on the Dyno day?
LOL... usual BS from up in QLD. No dyno results nor mysterious owners who swapped ABT to APR. I'd take it all with a pinch of salt ;)

1st off the so called Oz "version" of the APR S1 doesn't produce more power than the US equivalent. Same version according to the US APR support.

T_S3
February 20th, 2016, 04:39 PM
Sorry boys been busy. If you're keen PM me so I know numbers and I'll speak to ACS and see how much it will cost us as a group to use there dyno and take it from there.

I know Korny's keen with ABT and Roadrunner was until he switched but be good to see the Uni in action as a comparison.

roadrunner
February 20th, 2016, 04:47 PM
Sorry boys been busy. If you're keen PM me so I know numbers and I'll speak to ACS and see how much it will cost us as a group to use there dyno and take it from there.

I know Korny's keen with ABT and Roadrunner was until he switched but be good to see the Uni in action as a comparison.
I am still keen as haven't dyno'd since APR S1 in Feb 2015

mp2811
February 20th, 2016, 05:12 PM
Apr/revo so age 2 dyno runs | Audi-Sport.net (http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/apr-revo-so-age-2-dyno-runs.262249/#post-2664662)

Well here is comparison of Revo/APR same hardware, same dyno. Stage 2 HP numbers close 370hp APRvs 362HP Revo but APR way more torque! Both little low as others have been around 370-390hp. I think 16hp gain going stage 2 for one of them.

Pretty much every dyno I'm seeing in UK APR getting 420LBS torque stage 2. That's 10% more than US tune states so must be different file for ROW.

I know different dyno etc but one guy posts his 401.5 HP dyno of APR stage 1/DSG with IC, intake and intake hose. So maybe bigger gains with this hardware. I've seen 10hp from upgraded inlet pipe/hose.

roadrunner
February 21st, 2016, 12:03 AM
Apr/revo so age 2 dyno runs | Audi-Sport.net (http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/apr-revo-so-age-2-dyno-runs.262249/#post-2664662)

Well here is comparison of Revo/APR same hardware, same dyno. Stage 2 HP numbers close 370hp APRvs 362HP Revo but APR way more torque! Both little low as others have been around 370-390hp. I think 16hp gain going stage 2 for one of them.

Pretty much every dyno I'm seeing in UK APR getting 420LBS torque stage 2. That's 10% more than US tune states so must be different file for ROW.

I know different dyno etc but one guy posts his 401.5 HP dyno of APR stage 1/DSG with IC, intake and intake hose. So maybe bigger gains with this hardware. I've seen 10hp from upgraded inlet pipe/hose.
Too much torque with APR IMO. Will have impact on transmission IMO. With the lower torque on UniTrinics there is no noticeable seat of pant difference, however you do notice the power (kW) increase in the >5000rpm range

domino_z
February 22nd, 2016, 10:34 AM
You guys should join the s3 Facebook group

There's heaps of posts with ppl doing quarter mile runs, dynos and other comparo's with various tuning companies


https://www.facebook.com/groups/s3ownersusa/

Also plenty of people having problems and throwing various codes, like this just posted a few minutes ago


You'll get a better sense of what's happening out in real world with actual customer cars than forum banter

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/02/21/53cf8b8ebd5bece806c2c17717a082fe.jpg

Aussie Audi Guy
February 22nd, 2016, 11:38 AM
Too much torque with APR IMO. Will have impact on transmission IMO. With the lower torque on UniTrinics there is no noticeable seat of pant difference, however you do notice the power (kW) increase in the >5000rpm range

APR have a "Low Output" file that is available to every customer. In Brisbane this has been requested once only, and to the best of my knowledge, less than three times across the country. It does limit wheelspin a little on the FWD GTI's & VRS Skoda's.

There is a LOT of people running the "High Output" file with no problems at all with the drivability & drivetrain.

Still working with BWA for a dyno date.

domino_z
February 22nd, 2016, 12:21 PM
let's all stay calm and positive for the sake of the apr rs3 tune :kiss_rings:

Guy is there any evidence to show the good ol' 7 speed clutch packs have a higher torque limit?

i've built 2 dual clutch boxes with dodson clutch packs and in no way want to go down that road ever again

Aussie Audi Guy
February 22nd, 2016, 12:57 PM
let's all stay calm and positive for the sake of the apr rs3 tune :kiss_rings:

Guy is there any evidence to show the good ol' 7 speed clutch packs have a higher torque limit?

i've built 2 dual clutch boxes with dodson clutch packs and in no way want to go down that road ever again

My own experience with these clutches was on my personal car the "Frankenmumster" Tiguan with 570hp & 660+ NM. Stock clutches were fine on that - it was brutal with 275 tyres all around and 5000rpm launch. We started breaking rear CV's & the stock clutches on the DQ500 were fine.

We already have DSG software (our own) for the MQB DQ500's.

Remarcabull
February 22nd, 2016, 04:03 PM
let's all stay calm and positive for the sake of the apr rs3 tune :kiss_rings:

Guy is there any evidence to show the good ol' 7 speed clutch packs have a higher torque limit?

i've built 2 dual clutch boxes with dodson clutch packs and in no way want to go down that road ever again
Man I dont know how you can enjoy your car in Sydney. I just arrived in the CBD and my poor car couldn't even get a squirt in.... [emoji30]

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domino_z
February 22nd, 2016, 04:23 PM
Man I dont know how you can enjoy your car in Sydney. I just arrived in the CBD and my poor car couldn't even get a squirt in.... [emoji30]

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i've got that well sorted by living in melbourne since birth

Remarcabull
February 22nd, 2016, 04:25 PM
i've got that well sorted by living in melbourne since birth
Haha, that's worse! Biggest nanny state!

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roadrunner
February 22nd, 2016, 04:32 PM
Haha, that's worse! Biggest nanny state!

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Doesn't VIC have zero tolerance to exceeding the peed limit and no law forcing them to put up warning signs when approaching speed cameras? I got done years ago for doing 62kph in a 60 zone in VIC

Remarcabull
February 22nd, 2016, 04:35 PM
Doesn't VIC have zero tolerance to exceeding the peed limit and no law forcing them to put up warning signs when approaching speed cameras? I got done years ago for doing 62kph in a 60 zone in VIC
More like 1 km. Its crap. Would never live there for that reason alone. Other than that it's a lovely place

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domino_z
February 22nd, 2016, 04:44 PM
zero tolerance is slight over exaggeration but yes you have to stick to the limit in the burbs and be smart about where you go to enjoy your cars

Shane_S3
February 22nd, 2016, 06:02 PM
Lol wut.. I was in Sydney two weeks ago and there's no way you can get away with speeding.. fkn speedcams everywhere.
In Melbourne, it's much easier to give it a good thrashing. Princess hwy GP lol.
62 in a 60 zone? That means you were doing 65, roadrunner.

T_S3
February 22nd, 2016, 09:00 PM
Lol wut.. I was in Sydney two weeks ago and there's no way you can get away with speeding.. fkn speedcams everywhere.
In Melbourne, it's much easier to give it a good thrashing. Princess hwy GP lol.
62 in a 60 zone? That means you were doing 65, roadrunner.

Gotta learn where they are much more fun that way and on your hip pocket.

T_S3
February 22nd, 2016, 09:02 PM
BTW:I've only had one person PM me so...... is its only 3 people?

belle_tb
February 22nd, 2016, 09:44 PM
I ended up getting mine dynoed recently but id still be interested in attending as a spectator :p maybe there could be a little cruise afterwards ??

Korny
February 22nd, 2016, 09:45 PM
Lol wut.. I was in Sydney two weeks ago and there's no way you can get away with speeding.. fkn speedcams everywhere.
In Melbourne, it's much easier to give it a good thrashing. Princess hwy GP lol.
62 in a 60 zone? That means you were doing 65, roadrunner.

Touch wood I haven't been booked in over a decade! Gotta love Sydney...


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Korny
February 22nd, 2016, 09:46 PM
BTW:I've only had one person PM me so...... is its only 3 people?

I am happy to participate...


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T_S3
February 22nd, 2016, 09:47 PM
I am happy to participate...


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I've got you RR and someone else.


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Korny
February 24th, 2016, 08:27 PM
Nice work!


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A.U.D.I.
February 24th, 2016, 08:42 PM
So after 18 pages, is this thread topic actually a thing now?
Do you need a regular S3 Sedan just for comparisons sake?

T_S3
February 24th, 2016, 09:44 PM
So after 18 pages, is this thread topic actually a thing now?
Do you need a regular S3 Sedan just for comparisons sake?

I dynoed mine at ACS last year so can use that as the base. (stock) Are you going to drive up?

crc
February 24th, 2016, 10:22 PM
If you do it at BWA I am also happy for mine to be used as a baseline


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A.U.D.I.
February 25th, 2016, 03:11 PM
Would be keen to - to see what's involved as much as anything, and understand the differences in the cars post-tune.
did you publish your results on here?

Aussie Audi Guy
February 25th, 2016, 03:11 PM
Starting a new thread re Dyno Day

ido09s
February 26th, 2016, 01:55 PM
still no dyno day or boost curves to make a decent compare lol

Remarcabull
February 26th, 2016, 03:59 PM
still no dyno day or boost curves to make a decent compare lol

Heres an APR tuned Golf R MK7 with APR intake done on the MAHA dyno in Sydney. ive seen ones without the intake do 267kw 470nm

24904

jaydece
February 26th, 2016, 06:05 PM
http://youtu.be/9ZNXWbUfbgE

Compares stock to stage II + using APR parts


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ido09s
February 27th, 2016, 03:46 PM
and not one of those plots is a boost curve

like i have always said, you can't compare tunes till you see all the readouts. For all we know one tune could be making 5psi more than the other and making 2kw more.....



Heres an APR tuned Golf R MK7 with APR intake done on the MAHA dyno in Sydney. ive seen ones without the intake do 267kw 470nm

24904

Aussie Audi Guy
March 1st, 2016, 12:48 PM
and not one of those plots is a boost curve

like i have always said, you can't compare tunes till you see all the readouts. For all we know one tune could be making 5psi more than the other and making 2kw more.....

I mentioned I would start a new thread about a dyno day. Just a question for ido09s - how do you propose we get boost readings out of an S3?

belle_tb
March 1st, 2016, 01:20 PM
24929

Mine had a boost curve? Or are you referring to something different. Mine is obviously without tune

ido09s
March 1st, 2016, 01:46 PM
I mentioned I would start a new thread about a dyno day. Just a question for ido09s - how do you propose we get boost readings out of an S3?

so your telling me there is not one single source to get a boost reading from on an S3?

Aussie Audi Guy
March 1st, 2016, 02:25 PM
so your telling me there is not one single source to get a boost reading from on an S3?

You have to peirce / tap the manifold somewhere (it's fully sealed). no vac source easy to get to. With the the MAHA we can read requested / actual boost from the obd port, but of course a tuning box modifies that signal.

P.S. thats why you don't see many boost plots on these dyno's

Aussie Audi Guy
March 1st, 2016, 02:42 PM
APR - High Performance Development for Audi, VW and Porsche Vehicles. (http://goapr.com.au/products/boost_tap_20t_ea888_gen3-au.html) - have to peirce the manifold - if you dont run the boost tap, you have to plug it up again.

ido09s
March 1st, 2016, 04:24 PM
dyno sheets and dyno days will prove jack then.

Like i have said time and time again, your tunes could run 5psi more than the rest and 2kw more. They could run 10psi more and make 20kw more, in which case its simply boost that makes the difference.

You know as well as i know, tuning a car without a boost reading is near impossible so how can anyone compare tunes without the same parameters

I would sooner choose a tune that runs 18psi and makes 10kw less than a tune that runs 25psi for 10 extra kw's

Alister
March 1st, 2016, 05:00 PM
You are very fixated on the absolute boost level ido09s. I understand that ceteris paribus you would rather a lower boost level than a higher boost level, but there are other important factors to consider too such as AFRs and EGTs which will impact on how far the envelope is being pushed in terms of reliability.

If it is safe to run a high boost level (and lots of modern turbos run a lot higher boost levels than what Jap cars of old would have been safe running), then what is the problem? If I were buying a flash tune (and I'm not), then I would be looking firstly for something that is safe (because the last thing I want to deal with is a blown engine) and secondly something that offers good bang for buck.

ido09s
March 1st, 2016, 05:18 PM
You don't tune cars do you Alister? if you had half an idea you would understand why a boost value is just as important as an AFR or a timing value.

mp2811
March 1st, 2016, 05:22 PM
From what I have read on US forums Stage 1 APR was running around 27psi. I believe that Arin from APR stated that stage 2 was running 24. I have had PM from stage 2 people in USA with p3 gauges that said stage 1 was around 27 and stage 2 around 25. I'm not sure what we're running in Aust tunes, I would guess the same or very close.

Like others have said as long at AFR and EGT well in check which has been shown on numerous dyno of APR cars then no issues. I believe that the A45 AMG from factory runs 27psi.

I don't think anyone can disagree that APR stage 1 ECU a fantastic tune. Even Roadrunner has stated this number of times in this thread.

I do believe that Eurodyne and UM were running even slightly higher boost levels than APR. I haven't read anywhere about Uni, Revo etc.

I know that best custom tunes I've seen in Europe stage 2 making 410ps and 550nm on 22psi and very popular custom tuner in UK Unicorn running 21-22 psi for stage 1. Making same power as APR but more torque (up to 410lbs on stage 1)

Alister
March 1st, 2016, 05:59 PM
You don't tune cars do you Alister? if you had half an idea you would understand why a boost value is just as important as an AFR or a timing value.

No, I'm certainly no engine tuner, but the basic principles are not rocket science either.

What I'm trying to say (maybe not very well) is that there are several variables that need to be considered, all of which are equally important, and no one value should necessarily be considered in isolation.

smit2100
March 1st, 2016, 10:35 PM
From what I have read on US forums Stage 1 APR was running around 27psi. I believe that Arin from APR stated that stage 2 was running 24. I have had PM from stage 2 people in USA with p3 gauges that said stage 1 was around 27 and stage 2 around 25. I'm not sure what we're running in Aust tunes, I would guess the same or very close.

Like others have said as long at AFR and EGT well in check which has been shown on numerous dyno of APR cars then no issues. I believe that the A45 AMG from factory runs 27psi.

I don't think anyone can disagree that APR stage 1 ECU a fantastic tune. Even Roadrunner has stated this number of times in this thread.

I do believe that Eurodyne and UM were running even slightly higher boost levels than APR. I haven't read anywhere about Uni, Revo etc.

I know that best custom tunes I've seen in Europe stage 2 making 410ps and 550nm on 22psi and very popular custom tuner in UK Unicorn running 21-22 psi for stage 1. Making same power as APR but more torque (up to 410lbs on stage 1)

When talking dyno numbers are they at the crank or at the wheels and are we talking mainline / dyno dynamics or US HP happy mustang dyno's. Lots of variables in dyno numbers as I see it, just interested to have some context (nicer to have to have more some local based reference points to make some comparisons)

mp2811
March 2nd, 2016, 10:33 AM
When talking dyno numbers are they at the crank or at the wheels and are we talking mainline / dyno dynamics or US HP happy mustang dyno's. Lots of variables in dyno numbers as I see it, just interested to have some context (nicer to have to have more some local based reference points to make some comparisons)

I have no idea what type of Dyno it's on. The closest comparison I've seen is same dyno and day for Revo/APR stage 2 cars in UK. Both same hardware and APR made about 10-15hp more and 40lbs torque more.

I've also seen both of those cars on Unicorm's Dyno and Again APR slightly more, but Unicorn tuned car slightly more 5hp and min torque over APR.

I haven;t really looked at US dyno as tune is different to ours so closest comparisson from UK.

I think we would all love to see dyno day with all the main brands stage 1/2 locally which is in process of being arranged on here. See the results, AFR's and boost would be fantastic. I think there is more to picking tune than simply dyno results, you would think all be pretty similar. Then cost, local support and having local dealer big factors.

APR would have the best dealer network and most R&D in Aust and most likely highest dyno numbers but also WAY more expensive than others. There's obviously pro's and cons's for each, jsut need to weigh up importance of each for YOU.

ido09s
March 2nd, 2016, 11:01 AM
No, I'm certainly no engine tuner, but the basic principles are not rocket science either.

What I'm trying to say (maybe not very well) is that there are several variables that need to be considered, all of which are equally important, and no one value should necessarily be considered in isolation.

And you have said it yourself, several need to be considered, and boost to me is the main one that people should be looking at.

When I was tuning I always referenced boost versus AFR. EGT's help, but aren't the be all and end all of engine life. Timing will affect EGT's, boost pressure will effect EGT's, as will AFR's. Put 30psi through an engine all day along and then try it again with 20psi in another car, I know which car will last longer, even with similar power levels

The main reason I am so hell bent on boost levels is that is seems to be the one thing none of these tuners will supply. We all know boost makes power to a point, so what are they trying to hide? the fact their tunes run **** loads more boost to make the power others dont?

Remarcabull
March 2nd, 2016, 11:34 AM
I have no idea what type of Dyno it's on. The closest comparison I've seen is same dyno and day for Revo/APR stage 2 cars in UK. Both same hardware and APR made about 10-15hp more and 40lbs torque more.

I've also seen both of those cars on Unicorm's Dyno and Again APR slightly more, but Unicorn tuned car slightly more 5hp and min torque over APR.

I haven;t really looked at US dyno as tune is different to ours so closest comparisson from UK.

I think we would all love to see dyno day with all the main brands stage 1/2 locally which is in process of being arranged on here. See the results, AFR's and boost would be fantastic. I think there is more to picking tune than simply dyno results, you would think all be pretty similar. Then cost, local support and having local dealer big factors.

APR would have the best dealer network and most R&D in Aust and most likely highest dyno numbers but also WAY more expensive than others. There's obviously pro's and cons's for each, jsut need to weigh up importance of each for YOU.

I know as a fact that when ABT tune their car (20 million dollar MAHA dyno) they get the exact settings specifications that Audi use to tune/determine engine output and use the same. As been said before all tunes will be pretty much the same, others will have more torque which will cause issues with the transmission/drivetrain long term. pushing 27psi is dangerous no wonder some of those shafts give way.

WarwickL
March 2nd, 2016, 01:10 PM
Boost curves are a must. I've seen first hand boost curves on an R and boost was not well managed with dangerous spikes around 3200 rpm. The story from the tuner was full of marketing BS. I've never cared too much about absolute power and torque but the area under the curves. Makes a much more driveable car on the road and a more reliable one when AFRs and boost are controlled across the rev range.

Edit - oh and I'm a noob on this stuff by the way so knowledge is what I want, not marketing (been caught by that before)

jnrdavo
March 2nd, 2016, 03:11 PM
good points.... On the higher boost levels though, isn't the A45 AMG 26pis from factory? I'm assuming with newer technology, they are pushing stock boost to higher grounds, with the intentional of longevity of the engine and drive train in line... I suppose only time will tell if AMG are right though...

boltor
March 2nd, 2016, 04:06 PM
was not well managed with dangerous spikes around 3200 rpm. The story from the tuner was full of marketing

did the name start with "V"? Had that on my R...

mp2811
March 2nd, 2016, 04:32 PM
Boost curves are a must. I've seen first hand boost curves on an R and boost was not well managed with dangerous spikes around 3200 rpm. The story from the tuner was full of marketing BS. I've never cared too much about absolute power and torque but the area under the curves. Makes a much more driveable car on the road and a more reliable one when AFRs and boost are controlled across the rev range.

Edit - oh and I'm a noob on this stuff by the way so knowledge is what I want, not marketing (been caught by that before)

That's spot on, completely agree with you!

ido09s
March 2nd, 2016, 09:25 PM
good points.... On the higher boost levels though, isn't the A45 AMG 26pis from factory? I'm assuming with newer technology, they are pushing stock boost to higher grounds, with the intentional of longevity of the engine and drive train in line... I suppose only time will tell if AMG are right though...

it doesnt matter what they are designed to run from the factory, the less boost they run the better.

mp2811
March 2nd, 2016, 09:58 PM
it doesnt matter what they are designed to run from the factory, the less boost they run the better.


I think we all agree on that. The trouble is NONE of the tuners are releasing their Boost, dyno with AFR's etc. I only know about APR ones as posted online by people with tune that have bothered to get dyno. I know APR has good safe AFR's on rich side obviously to handle the extra boost, keep the EGT in check.

We would all love to see dyno charts from all the players to compare numbers, curves, boost control, EGT's and AFR. Then we would have full understanding of what is going on, unfortunately that will never happen.

So all we can choose our tunes on is numbers, price, whether its full flash or tuning box, local R&D, local support and dealer network. Also a big one is reviews on forums like these to assist each other with both good and bad tunes/mods etc. That's a massive help to everyone!

WarwickL
March 2nd, 2016, 10:00 PM
Actually, tuners have released good info on the previous gen Golf R platform.

smit2100
March 2nd, 2016, 10:55 PM
+1 I like to see area under the curve on a dyno graph to see if the torque and power is usable on the street as opposed to bragging rights on peak numbers, but a quarter mile time or zero to 100km time usually sorts all the dyno shinanigans out. When it comes to tuning, I like to know the tuner has got my back in terms of boost, timing and torque values at low to medium rpms (torque bends stock rods, or shoots them out of the crankcase) On the fueling side, like to think they have your back covered on AFR's(running lean) and knock retard to prevent denonation. For me, running pretty high boost pressures and not being able to monitor for a boost spike / boost leak seems a bit odd (good to have a gauge than can bring a quantative approach to measuring some form of a relative number to validate your butt dynometer so you know to backoff before something goes bang / or confirm somethings off and its not bad fuel. That said, I know what tune I would roll with if given the choice of two similar power / torque outputs but different boost profiles and all other things being relatively the same.

Speaking of torque and rods, whats the thinking on what the stock rods are good for

ido09s
March 3rd, 2016, 08:07 AM
I think we all agree on that. The trouble is NONE of the tuners are releasing their Boost, dyno with AFR's etc. I only know about APR ones as posted online by people with tune that have bothered to get dyno. I know APR has good safe AFR's on rich side obviously to handle the extra boost, keep the EGT in check.

We would all love to see dyno charts from all the players to compare numbers, curves, boost control, EGT's and AFR. Then we would have full understanding of what is going on, unfortunately that will never happen.

So all we can choose our tunes on is numbers, price, whether its full flash or tuning box, local R&D, local support and dealer network. Also a big one is reviews on forums like these to assist each other with both good and bad tunes/mods etc. That's a massive help to everyone!

to be honest unless you can get into the ECU and see their timing values as well all you can really do is hope its all ok. Its why I laugh my head off when I see replies of my car goes really well and has done for 5000klms so the tune is awesome. What do they base their opinions on? I don't think any of these people have accessed the ECU to log anything, nor have they even seen how much boost the car is running, yet we have forums full of opinions that people take as gospel

The marketing BS is laughable at best with half the tunes on the market. I mean seriously, a stage 1 tune, your kidding me aren't you. Oooohhh, stage 2 cause I added an exhaust and an intake. How about you just tune the car for all round best performance? or are the customers so gullible these days that you can sell them a tune with a few more degrees of timing and calling it a mid range torque tune and charge a few extra dollars????

A comment was made in here the other day by someone, you will know who you are, that once their tune is added to your vehicle the MAHA can no longer read a boost reference from the OBD port...... convenience much

Aussie Audi Guy
March 3rd, 2016, 12:01 PM
[QUOTE=ido09s;430026

A comment was made in here the other day by someone, you will know who you are, that once their tune is added to your vehicle the MAHA can no longer read a boost reference from the OBD port...... convenience much[/QUOTE]

As far as I understand, you can read the boost reference from the OBD port from all tuners at stage 1 or 2 level. Once you go to stage 3 where there are changes to all the map sensors, then it's a little trickier via OBD.

Tuning boxes don't report correctly as they are modifying that signal to report lower.

ido09s
March 5th, 2016, 10:54 AM
As far as I understand, you can read the boost reference from the OBD port from all tuners at stage 1 or 2 level. Once you go to stage 3 where there are changes to all the map sensors, then it's a little trickier via OBD.

Tuning boxes don't report correctly as they are modifying that signal to report lower.

so there should be plenty of dyno sheets with boost and AFR's plotted then from your dyno day ;)

mp2811
March 5th, 2016, 04:57 PM
APR Stage 2, DSG Map, APR Intake & BCS Exhaust - Modifying your Golf R MK7 - VW R Owners Club (http://www.vwroc.com/forums/topic/12741-apr-stage-2-dsg-map-apr-intake-bcs-exhaust/)

This is latest stage 2 dyno from UK. Same engine and tunes as us I believe. Again only shows numbers but has dyno, bit of review and some vbox 0-60 times. I think pretty impressive 388hp and 580nm with huge torque from 2100 rpm!

T_S3
March 21st, 2016, 02:04 PM
Guys,

Ive spoken the the team at ACS and asked if we can you there Dyno. Its a bloody good one and is just a couple steps down from the one the use at Audi HO in Germany but none the less its amazing. It will cost you about $165 down from $220. (good price). Not to be repeated price as well.
Just need to know numbers and a date that suits. And EVERYONE is welcome.

Last time I was there each car did as many runs as they wanted to in the hour, I personally did 13.

Post up on here, name and car on the time slot you want.

8am
9am
10am
11am
12am
1pm
2pm

For a date I'll get back to you but looking at Friday the 29 of April.

Remarcabull
March 21st, 2016, 02:28 PM
Guys,

Ive spoken the the team at ACS and asked if we can you there Dyno. Its a bloody good one and is just a couple steps down from the one the use at Audi HO in Germany but none the less its amazing. It will cost you about $165 down from $220. (good price). Not to be repeated price as well.
Just need to know numbers and a date that suits. And EVERYONE is welcome.

Last time I was there each car did as many runs as they wanted to in the hour, I personally did 13.

Post up on here, name and car on the time slot you want.

8am
9am
10am
11am
12am
1pm
2pm

For a date I'll get back to you but looking at Friday the 29 of April.
Maha is the best and most accurate dyno. I was pulling 220 kw with the abt one on the ACS one. Stock was 169kw. The boys there are great. Know alot about ABT too.

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Khoa
March 21st, 2016, 04:15 PM
The marketing BS is laughable at best with half the tunes on the market. I mean seriously, a stage 1 tune, your kidding me aren't you. Oooohhh, stage 2 cause I added an exhaust and an intake. How about you just tune the car for all round best performance? or are the customers so gullible these days that you can sell them a tune with a few more degrees of timing and calling it a mid range torque tune and charge a few extra dollars????


Best reply on Ozaudi so far .......

Unfortunately it's where the market is heading to, when i first heard of Stg1, Stg2 ..... i was like WTF is that? :mrgreen:

crc
March 21st, 2016, 06:24 PM
Oooohhh, stage 2 cause I added an exhaust and an intake. How about you just tune the car for all round best performance? or are the customers so gullible these days that you can sell them a tune with a few more degrees of timing and calling it a mid range torque tune and charge a few extra dollars????


Adequate back pressure on stage 1 tune = OK. Add DP = reduction in back pressure. Same target tables = spool++, = overboost, = detonation, = CEL. x 50 = piston with a bad case of pitted face. x 100 = new crate motor not under warranty due to tune. = divorce due to $7k bill :)

Korny
March 21st, 2016, 07:39 PM
Guys,

Ive spoken the the team at ACS and asked if we can you there Dyno. Its a bloody good one and is just a couple steps down from the one the use at Audi HO in Germany but none the less its amazing. It will cost you about $165 down from $220. (good price). Not to be repeated price as well.
Just need to know numbers and a date that suits. And EVERYONE is welcome.

Last time I was there each car did as many runs as they wanted to in the hour, I personally did 13.

Post up on here, name and car on the time slot you want.

8am
9am
10am
11am
12am
1pm
2pm

For a date I'll get back to you but looking at Friday the 29 of April.

I think ABT, APR etc should fund the dyno day...I'm curious but not that curious that I need to fork out another $165 to satiate that curiosity. [emoji41]


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Remarcabull
March 22nd, 2016, 12:50 PM
I think ABT, APR etc should fund the dyno day...I'm curious but not that curious that I need to fork out another $165 to satiate that curiosity. [emoji41]


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You should have come along to the dyno when we had the ABT engineers here. its was 262kw 450nm exactly on the dyno sheets, the engineers said that the fuel is very bad and power will go up with better fuel.
With the ABT downpipe exhaust and IC i get 280kw 475nm and is very safe as the engineers dont rely on boost as much as timing etc. They also tune it in each gear as to not stress the transmission out and get feeback for vibrations and clutch slip. They are provided the setup specifications from Audi for the MAHA dyno and tune it exactly to them.

geralis32
March 22nd, 2016, 02:31 PM
whats the actual wheel power abt put out, not the fake calculated engine power


You should have come along to the dyno when we had the ABT engineers here. its was 262kw 450nm exactly on the dyno sheets, the engineers said that the fuel is very bad and power will go up with better fuel.
With the ABT downpipe exhaust and IC i get 280kw 475nm and is very safe as the engineers dont rely on boost as much as timing etc. They also tune it in each gear as to not stress the transmission out and get feeback for vibrations and clutch slip. They are provided the setup specifications from Audi for the MAHA dyno and tune it exactly to them.

Remarcabull
March 22nd, 2016, 02:39 PM
whats the actual wheel power abt put out, not the fake calculated engine power
235kw 45kw loss through drivetrain.

Im going to do it again at bwa when im up there next. But cbf going out of my way spending 6 hours driving there and back for no other reason.

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belle_tb
March 22nd, 2016, 03:09 PM
235? I thought it was 210 lol. I must have been away with the pixies.

What is the knock like?

geralis32
March 22nd, 2016, 03:23 PM
Yeah 235 atw is more than any Ecu tune I have seen

on every other forum I haven't seen more than 200a4wkw from a jb1/abt

Remarcabull
March 22nd, 2016, 03:44 PM
Yeah 235 atw is more than any Ecu tune I have seen

on every other forum I haven't seen more than 200a4wkw from a jb1/abt

I do have the exhaust, sports cat and intercooler and modified my stock intake to have dual intakes on either side of the IC and removed the snow grate. I also have a very efficient drive train as most cars i see have a loss of 56kw + in the drivetrain.

Remarcabull
March 22nd, 2016, 03:45 PM
Stock is 210-220kw (depending on drivetrain loss). With good fuel you should should get 25 more nm and 10kw.

geralis32
March 22nd, 2016, 05:46 PM
what are you on about stock they make about 170-175 at the wheel kw

belle_tb
March 22nd, 2016, 05:54 PM
I think he means with ABT and no other mods.

Remarcabull
March 22nd, 2016, 07:24 PM
I think he means with ABT and no other mods.
Correct. Stock car with abt tune

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geralis32
March 22nd, 2016, 07:28 PM
have you got dyno papers of this? most stage two cars with an ecu flash aren't getting much higher than 210kw at all 4 wheels
it would be awesome if these cars could put that much power down, don't get me wrong

Remarcabull
March 22nd, 2016, 07:40 PM
have you got dyno papers of this? most stage two cars with an ecu flash aren't getting much higher than 210kw at all 4 wheels
it would be awesome if these cars could put that much power down, don't get me wrong
Abt has them. Hence why ill do my own before i sell it. The stock dyno sheet fastgun posted is on the forum. 262kw and 450nm have sports cat intercooler and intake pushes it ip 18hw 20nm which is understandable.

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Korny
March 22nd, 2016, 10:16 PM
So ABT tune, down pipe, VWR CAI would be around the 265-270?


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Remarcabull
March 22nd, 2016, 10:20 PM
So ABT tune, down pipe, VWR CAI would be around the 265-270?


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Yes. On a stock s3 the downpipe alone adds 10kw 20nm. Check it out on their website.

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Korny
March 22nd, 2016, 10:28 PM
13,500 kms on the tune I wouldn't go back to a stock vehicle, that's for sure. [emoji41]


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Remarcabull
March 22nd, 2016, 10:36 PM
13,500 kms on the tune I wouldn't go back to a stock vehicle, that's for sure. [emoji41]


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Haha. You know what i mean.

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peterp1972
March 22nd, 2016, 10:41 PM
Haha. You know what i mean.

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Totally agree

Adam Ciaccia
March 23rd, 2016, 09:26 PM
I'm going to throw a spanner in. I had a TMC Tuning box from my Skoda Fabia vRS 1.4tsi which I sent back to TMC Motorsport for recalibration and have the harness changed because I'm waiting until APR get there Downpipe ready and after I've put some KM's on the car (around 5,000km, has 1,500km now) I plan on doing the full stage 2 treatment with VWR intake and springs. The main reason I'm doing this is because I want to change the standard downpipe because I'm sick of the annoying effing rattle it makes.

The TMC box performed really well on the Fabia, with only a CAI added. It did 140kw atw from memory. Any way I installed it tonight on the R, bloody pain to install, however I hooked it all up and too it for a spin and this is my 2 cents

- It definitely pulls a lot harder thank stock, 3rd gear gets you close to 190 VERY QUICK. TMC numbers are 262kw and 458nm as per there website
- Under modest throttle you can feel the Torque increase, which is substantial, gear changes in D smooth
- When in race mode in S gearing it's changes gears quite rough and redline is higher. Almost 7,000 RPM but it goes quite hard, a very noticeable increase in power. For me it's a bit of fun until I'm ready for the APR treatment, for those concerned with warranty, I understand why the tuning box is appealing, it's substantially increases performance and is quickly removed for Warranty issues.

Ill come along to a dyno day for a comparison, ****s and giggles. TMC unit was 299 plus shipping 3 years ago and it's the 3rd car I've had it on. Good value in that respect as they recalibrate for free and I just had to pay for a new harness/loom.

andrewjamesdean
March 23rd, 2016, 10:39 PM
I've heard that the APR downpipe won't be released for our cars any time soon

Aussie Audi Guy
March 29th, 2016, 02:04 PM
I've heard that the APR downpipe won't be released for our cars any time soon

We still don't have an ETA unfortunately.

belle_tb
March 29th, 2016, 10:13 PM
Was going to post in that thread ...but it was closed. Was gonna be a JB1er. Bit expensive for me though

ido09s
March 30th, 2016, 08:12 AM
Adequate back pressure on stage 1 tune = OK. Add DP = reduction in back pressure. Same target tables = spool++, = overboost, = detonation, = CEL. x 50 = piston with a bad case of pitted face. x 100 = new crate motor not under warranty due to tune. = divorce due to $7k bill

so you adjust the tune to suit, not call it a stage 2 tune and ask if they want the torque tune or the fuel economy tune lol my car makes 500rwkw and still gets awesome fuel economy on E85, quite possibly as good as some of the cars in here to be honest on the freeway. Its not called an economy tune, or a torque tune, or a stage 2 tune. Going by the Euro market I must be on a stage 50 tune given all the mods I have done to my car



235? I thought it was 210 lol. I must have been away with the pixies.

What is the knock like?

Yet people still sit back and carry on like the dyno figures are the be all and end all of performance measurement. They are a tuning tool. Bring me an ABT tuned car and I will get you 300awkw if you like ;) People would have to believe it surely given it was done on a dyno lol

belle_tb
March 30th, 2016, 09:12 AM
so you adjust the tune to suit, not call it a stage 2 tune and ask if they want the torque tune or the fuel economy tune lol my car makes 500rwkw and still gets awesome fuel economy on E85, quite possibly as good as some of the cars in here to be honest on the freeway. Its not called an economy tune, or a torque tune, or a stage 2 tune. Going by the Euro market I must be on a stage 50 tune given all the mods I have done to my car




Yet people still sit back and carry on like the dyno figures are the be all and end all of performance measurement. They are a tuning tool. Bring me an ABT tuned car and I will get you 300awkw if you like ;) People would have to believe it surely given it was done on a dyno lol

It is about how the power is put down too....and weight etc. A lot more to it.

Remarcabull
April 2nd, 2016, 11:56 AM
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160402/063eb141a2897c3c906f23e71e87d61a.jpg

Can someone please explain this? Whats it mean for people wanting tunes or who have tunes or is it a lame april fools jokes?

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rprodrive
April 2nd, 2016, 12:01 PM
Can someone please explain this? Whats it mean for people wanting tunes or who have tunes or is it a lame april fools jokes?

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It isn't April fools. The APR Australia site just shows that letter.

On the APR USA website it says the following - which suggests tunes will still be available.

25204

Remarcabull
April 2nd, 2016, 12:09 PM
It isn't April fools. The APR Australia site just shows that letter.

On the APR USA website it says the following - which suggests tunes will still be available.

25204
Maybe Guy can explain more? Did they want a bigger warehouse or sole distributor?

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jnrdavo
April 2nd, 2016, 02:46 PM
More news to come on this one as the facts unfold.

mp2811
April 2nd, 2016, 05:05 PM
I was informed by my Dealer that APR has removed all dealers and master dealers around world. Not sure what this means moving forward though. It's can't be good as local R&D and dealer network was APR australia's strength.

ant86
April 2nd, 2016, 06:23 PM
Wow curious to know what's going on

crc
April 2nd, 2016, 06:40 PM
Surely this needs a thread of its own! WTF? Wasn't it just last week APR were using AU as their rest-of-world test bed?

Remarcabull
April 2nd, 2016, 07:08 PM
APR are opening their own locally owned shop here in AUS. Hence why legal action is involved as harding performace used to be. I wonder what happens to all that stock? Yeah should be its own thread i think.

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