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Thread: B5 RS4 Stage 3 build

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
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    Default B5 RS4 Stage 3 build

    Going to document my build here.
    Back ground:
    I brought 2001 Black B5 RS4 Avant just over a year ago in Melbourne and drove it back to Perth over 4 days. Ever since I brought it I realised it was in a lot rougher condition then I thought. Buy that I mean, Every sensor and the usual gaskets have failed on me. After 1 year of replacing what seems like everything, it is time to go stage 3 running E85.

    The Aim:
    The aim for the build is to create the ultimate daily driver that will happily commute to work, will excite on the weekends and loves to be beat on without leaving me stranded. Each upgrade is to allow for future upgrades without becoming the limiting part. Do it once, Do it right. Build is a TTE RS4

    Parts for the build are as follows:

    The Turbo Engineers:
    TTE550's, Inlet to turbo housing ported to 44mm. Exit of turbine ported out to remove restrictions and finally Zircotec Ceramic coated hotside.

    JHM Motorsport:
    Full transmission rebuild kit with carbon syncros and updated 1-2 carrier,
    Uprated shifter centring spring,
    Short shifter trio,
    Upgraded cross rod.
    SportShifters.com custom shifter surround.

    Advanced Automotion:
    New Input shaft, New First and second gears. All with Cryogenic treatment and WPC treated.

    Wagner Tuning:
    RS4 intercoolers,
    3in downpipes Zircotec ceramic coated.

    034 Motorsports:
    2.7 Spec twin carbon clutch and flywheel,
    Billet differential carrier,
    Motorsport 'Street' density motor mounts,
    Snub mount and bracket,
    Transmission mounts 'track' density,
    Adjustable upper control arms,
    Uprated Lower control arms,
    Billet Diverter valves and silicone hoses,
    Silicone Spider hose replacement,
    Sway bar end links front and rear,
    Subframe reinforcement kit
    Rear 25.5mm sway bar.
    Billet rear tie rods.

    Fluidampr harmonic dampner

    THE-Tuner:
    Exhaust manifolds - Zircotech ceramic coated,
    SAI block off plates
    95mm Maf
    102mm THE-Y
    63mm Fresh Air Pipes.

    Wavetrac rear LSD

    UPS metal slave with clutch masters flow control valve.

    AKmotorsport.net
    Billet rear subframe bushings,
    Poly front subframe bushings,
    Poly rear suspension bushings - Street hardness.

    Prospeed T3 torsen center differential upgrade for 01e

    Walbro 450lph fuel pump '274'
    MSD2351 Fuel pump voltage controller.
    Bosch ev14 flow match 1150cc short injectors.
    Upgraded fuel lines and wiring. Hard lines are 6AN and flex line 8AN.
    GoFastBits FX-s 8051 Adjustable FPR

    B7 RS4 8 pot Brembos Brakes
    Girodisc 380mmx32mm 2 piece disc upfront.

    I will have 3 tunes on the ECU that can be swapped using the cruise control stalk.
    tune 1 is a stage 3 tune for 98RON fuel. Expecting around 450WHP No lift shift and Launch control.
    tune 2 is a stage 3 E70 tune. Expect around 480WHP, No lift shift and Launch control.
    tune 3 is a stage 3 E85 tune. Expect close to 525WHP, No lift shift and Launch control.

    pic1.jpg
    Last edited by Falco; November 24th, 2018 at 06:18 PM. Reason: Update Parts

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Falco For This Useful Post:

    projectsplat (September 19th, 2019)

  3. #2
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    Default

    nice one mate, sounds great. What about suspension and brakes, any changes with the increased power?

    Also for the pics, can you send me a link to one so I can check?

  4. #3
    Join Date
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    Good to see some one new is trying out a few mods. My RS came with the wagner kit which will transfer to the new motor. Also came with the 034 rear bar, Sachs +15 clutch, and a few other bits. I took the Audi 01E gearbox upgrade kit over JHM, didn't know that THE tuner was still active so I've sourced my manifolds from UK.

    I'd agree that you need the full underbody rebuild. Not just mounts, but all suspension bushes or replacement arms. At 15/16 years old, even standard power outputs are more than the old bushes can stand. I went standard as most owners who use the car regularly find the upgraded after market mounts introduce too much NVH for regular use.

    The spare engine is getting a full rebuild, pistons, bearings, Loba mechanical cams, fluidampr and so on. Looking forward to your build. Enjoy.
    C5 RS6: Sportec, Milltek & Wagner -- B5 RS4 : tastefully modified -- Audi 1.8 quattro 132 Kw -- UNIMOG 404 TLF8

  5. #4
    SKYHIONPSI Guest

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    Nice list of mods. Good luck with your power goals, hopefully i will see you driving around Perth one day.

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnrdavo View Post
    nice one mate, sounds great. What about suspension and brakes, any changes with the increased power?

    Also for the pics, can you send me a link to one so I can check?
    Suspension and brakes to come later. As the car is a daily and not a track car, the standard brakes are fine for now. Plan is though for B7 RS4 8pots and 380mm Girodisc.
    Not sure on suspension yet. I need to see how it handles with all this work before deciding which direction to head.
    The car should be fairly tail happy.

  7. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Falco View Post
    Going to document my build here.
    Back ground:
    I brought 2000 Black B5 RS4 Avant just over a year ago in Melbourne and drove it back to Perth over 4 days. Ever since I brought it I realised it was in a lot rougher condition then I thought. Buy that I mean, Every sensor and the usual gaskets have failed on me. After 1 year of replacing what seems like everything, it is time to go stage 3 running E85.

    The Aim:
    The aim for the build is to create the ultimate daily driver that will happily commute to work, will excite on the weekends and loves to be beat on without leaving me stranded. Each upgrade is to allow for future upgrades without becoming the limiting part. Do it once, Do it right.

    Parts for the build are as follows:
    JHM Motorsport:
    Full transmission rebuild kit with carbon syncros and updated 1-2 carrier,
    Uprated shifter centring spring,
    Short shifter trio,
    Upgraded cross rod.

    Wagner Tuning:
    RS4 intercoolers,
    3in downpipes.

    034 Motorsports:
    2.7 Spec twin carbon clutch and flywheel,
    Billet differential carrier,
    Motorsport 'Street' density motor mounts,
    Snub mount and bracket,
    Transmission mounts 'track' density,
    Silicon MAF hose, Y-pipe hose, diverter valve hoses,
    Spider hose replacement,
    Sway bar end links front and rear,
    Subframe reinforcement kit
    Rear 25.5mm sway bar.

    Fluidampr harmonic dampner

    THE-Tuner:
    Exhaust manifolds,
    SAI block off plates.

    Wavetrac rear LSD

    Prospeed T3 torsen center differential upgrade for 01e

    Walbro 450lph fuel pump

    Bosch ev14 flow match 980cc short injectors.
    3bar FPR

    I will have 3 tunes on the ECU that can be swapped using the cruise control stalk.
    tune 1 will be base tune simular to stock but so i can run the new hardware.
    tune 2 is a stage 3 tune for 98RON fuel. Expect around 400awhp
    tune 3 is a stage 3 E85 tune. Expect around 450awph

    ps I tried to upload pics but they are too large for this site from the site I hosted them on. Will post pics soon

    pic1.jpg
    Nice set of parts, watch the carbon synchro's (my workshop had a car on the hoist when I picked my car up abount six months ago and the the second gear synco was being replaced with a steel version. Are you confident on getting 450awkw hp. I know someone that dropped 50k on their selling price of their car recently because their upgraded turbo kit resulted in a fair bit of torque at around 450awkw that resulted in a stoclk rod being thrown out of the side of the crankcase and they couldn't salvage the crankcase and hence crankcase and engine plate number had to come from a doner (50k dropped right their for non matching engine number, and the 50k excluded the engine rebuild with Carillo rods). Some of the other stock rods that stayed within the crankcase had a good 1 to 2cm banana bend in them. Not convinced you will get their even with e85 on a ko4 framed turbo, eg circa 450awk but if you do, need to be very careful with the torque curve as you may have trouble keeping you rods straight

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by smit2100 View Post
    Nice set of parts, watch the carbon synchro's (my workshop had a car on the hoist when I picked my car up abount six months ago and the the second gear synco was being replaced with a steel version. Are you confident on getting 450awkw hp. I know someone that dropped 50k on their selling price of their car recently because their upgraded turbo kit resulted in a fair bit of torque at around 450awkw that resulted in a stoclk rod being thrown out of the side of the crankcase and they couldn't salvage the crankcase and hence crankcase and engine plate number had to come from a doner (50k dropped right their for non matching engine number, and the 50k excluded the engine rebuild with Carillo rods). Some of the other stock rods that stayed within the crankcase had a good 1 to 2cm banana bend in them. Not convinced you will get their even with e85 on a ko4 framed turbo, eg circa 450awk but if you do, need to be very careful with the torque curve as you may have trouble keeping you rods straight
    Appreciate the concern. The JHM syncros are cast steel. This shouldnt be a problem if install correctly. The friction material is better than the audi revision for bringing the next ratio up to speed. A syncro shouldn't be subjected to brute force that would be noticable between forged and cast. Therefore I am not worried.
    Sad news about that car. Would suck to have a engine that is a giant paper weight. Obviously the engine builder and tuner were not talking. And if they were they dont know what they were doing.
    Rods in a B5 RS4 have been shown to have no problems with 700nm.
    Im not worried.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Falco View Post
    Appreciate the concern. The JHM syncros are cast steel. This shouldnt be a problem if install correctly. The friction material is better than the audi revision for bringing the next ratio up to speed. A syncro shouldn't be subjected to brute force that would be noticable between forged and cast. Therefore I am not worried.
    Sad news about that car. Would suck to have a engine that is a giant paper weight. Obviously the engine builder and tuner were not talking. And if they were they dont know what they were doing.
    Rods in a B5 RS4 have been shown to have no problems with 700nm.
    Im not worried.
    Steel or Brass? This has been a long running sage with various claims and counter claims about OE vs JHM vs the cheap china knock offs. Hard to get much info so it seems that this is the best I have seen on whats what. Lots use JHM and many have no issues, it seems. OE went a different way, better, who knows. The factory doesn't have the monopoly on good design.

    JHM = Cast China
    OEM = Forged Getrag Germany
    Getrag buys their Synchro rings for most of their gearboxes from Diehl Stiftung & Co. KG which is one of the largest supplier of synchro rings in the world. Unfortunately their minimum order qty is 20,000 pieces.

    Can't say I agree with the suspension priorities. 16 years ago the car had suspension adequate for the power. 16 years later you'd like a 50% increase in power through a rubber bushed suspension system that has deteriorated quite a bit in those areas that haven't been replaced in the interim. The numbers don't add up for me. Even worse for a street driven car.
    C5 RS6: Sportec, Milltek & Wagner -- B5 RS4 : tastefully modified -- Audi 1.8 quattro 132 Kw -- UNIMOG 404 TLF8

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by IchBautAuto View Post
    Steel or Brass? This has been a long running sage with various claims and counter claims about OE vs JHM vs the cheap china knock offs. Hard to get much info so it seems that this is the best I have seen on whats what. Lots use JHM and many have no issues, it seems. OE went a different way, better, who knows. The factory doesn't have the monopoly on good design.

    JHM = Cast China
    OEM = Forged Getrag Germany
    Getrag buys their Synchro rings for most of their gearboxes from Diehl Stiftung & Co. KG which is one of the largest supplier of synchro rings in the world. Unfortunately their minimum order qty is 20,000 pieces.

    Can't say I agree with the suspension priorities. 16 years ago the car had suspension adequate for the power. 16 years later you'd like a 50% increase in power through a rubber bushed suspension system that has deteriorated quite a bit in those areas that haven't been replaced in the interim. The numbers don't add up for me. Even worse for a street driven car.
    +plenty on the suspension / rubber comment. I just responded to a post regarding a b5s4 and condition and highlighted irrespective of mileage, rubber on these cars are getting close to 2 decades old and rubber perishes and particularly when you are putting extra load on them from that they were designed for. Doing the must do's like mounts , snub mounts, diff carrier etc are just the start given the need to drop an engine / tranny. My mechanic dropped the whole subframe when I went stage three and I did all the suspension (as much adjustability as possible to toe and camber to minimize tyre wear on lower suspension ) at the same time, eg full access and needed an alignment once boxed back up anyone.

    That said we all go about modifying and playing with our toys differently, but you and I might be showing our hand in terms of our age and being boost junkies, (much better ability to control that little hoon bastard inside) and appreciate being behind the wheel of a car that gives you confidence (feel safe) in terms of driveability and having an overall package of having speed, handling and braking sorted when driving traffic light to traffic light, and particularly when you can't control that little hoon bastard inside. I wouldn't have old suspension (non adjustable) and braking components containing aged rubber mated to a fair increase in power being delivered to the wheels on a heavy weighted front engine mounted car.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by IchBautAuto View Post
    Steel or Brass? This has been a long running sage with various claims and counter claims about OE vs JHM vs the cheap china knock offs. Hard to get much info so it seems that this is the best I have seen on whats what. Lots use JHM and many have no issues, it seems. OE went a different way, better, who knows. The factory doesn't have the monopoly on good design.

    JHM = Cast China
    OEM = Forged Getrag Germany
    Getrag buys their Synchro rings for most of their gearboxes from Diehl Stiftung & Co. KG which is one of the largest supplier of synchro rings in the world. Unfortunately their minimum order qty is 20,000 pieces.

    Can't say I agree with the suspension priorities. 16 years ago the car had suspension adequate for the power. 16 years later you'd like a 50% increase in power through a rubber bushed suspension system that has deteriorated quite a bit in those areas that haven't been replaced in the interim. The numbers don't add up for me. Even worse for a street driven car.
    Should have mentioned that all the control arms have been replaced and their associated bushing. The shocks are the last piece of the puzzle. They are still standard.

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