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Thread: RS4 B5 Manifold with EV14 72lb Injectors

  1. #1

    Default RS4 B5 Manifold with EV14 72lb Injectors

    Hi all, I have a problem with my S4 B5 hoping someone has been through a similar situation and has a solution:

    I have recently installed essentially an entire RS4 B5 Intake tract on my S4 B5 in preparation for K04s down the track, this includes: RS4 Airbox, 85mm MAF, RS4 Accordian, RS4 Y-Pipe, RS4 Bipipes, RS4 Throttle body, RS4 Manfold and finally a RS4 fuel rail. I used the 034 RS4 fuel rail spacer kit when installing the RS4 fuel rail and EV14 injectors which includes: 6x M13 Copper crush washers, 6x 6mm fuel rail spacers and 6x M6x20mm fuel rail bolts. I also used a 034 transition phenolic spacer to match the RS4 manifold to the S4 heads.

    Since installing the parts I have had the problem of a lean idle where i am getting continuous misfires on all cylinders. After removing everything, reinstalling, checking all clamps were sealing correctly several times over and the manifold installed with gasket sealant and torqued down correctly I finally narrowed down the problem to my Bosch EV14 72lb injectors not sealing correctly against the manifold thus letting in unmetered air into every cylinder. I removed the fuel rail again, replaced the Bosch O-rings that seal against the manifold with thicker OEM O-rings as suggested by a few people on older posts on Audizine however the problem still persisted. After installing all of this and the problem persisting i realised i had missed the copper washers that go around the injectors in the 034 kit that stop them going in too deep so i removed the fuel rail AGAIN and reinstalled. This fixed the problem on all but one cylinder that had a slight lean misfire still so i drove the car a little and it cleared up stopped misfiring and all was good for a couple weeks then today checked again and it was misfiring on one cylinder so i tightened down the fuel rail a bit extra however this caused the misfire to move to another cylinder next to it so i re-tightened and checked again and now had a misfire on two cylinders. Tried tightening again and i was misfiring on most cylinders again. Very frustrating at this point it seems like I am missing something from the puzzle and the only thing I don't have is injector hats however I am unsure if they are needed... I am aware that some EV14 injectors are different lengths thus the need for spacers and hats in some instances but I am unsure which combination I need.

    So in summary: Do I need injector hats, as well as the 034 6mm fuel rail spacers and copper washers when installing Bosch 72lb injectors into an RS4 intake manifold and RS4 fuel rail? If so which ones do I need?

    EV14_RS4_Kit.jpg
    Picture of 034 fuel rail spacer kit.
    Last edited by Bainos; March 12th, 2019 at 09:13 PM.
    Current: Nogaro 2001 B5 S4 Avant 6SPD - GET Stage 2+ Tune, Bosch 750cc Injectors, Walbro 450 Fuel Pump, Billy Boat 2.5" Catless Downpipes and Exhaust, APR R1 Diverter Valves, Bilstein PSS9 Coilovers, 034 Rear Sway Bar.

    Previous: Black 1999.5 A4 B5 1.8TQ 5SPD - Unknown Stage 1 tune, Turbo Back Exhaust, FK Coilovers, 710N Diverter Valve, Carbonio Intake

  2. #2

    Default

    You do not need injector hats on the 52mm long EV14 injectors with the RS4 Manifold and RS4 Fuel rail. RS4 injectors have a body length that is 33.6mm long vs the 750cc EV14 body length of 48.6mm.
    You should be using a fuel rail to manifold spacer that is 15mm.
    Can you post a picture of the injectors fitted? What part number are the injectors?

  3. #3

    Default

    I'm coming at this from another angle. I'll say first that it isn't clear exactly how things are set up so you may have covered all bases, just not said so. Aside from Falcos advice which is a direct response to your question, are you running this car on an S4 map? Not clear if the MAF sensor is S4 or RS4. Whats your fuel pressure? You may well have assembly issues resulting in a leak but that could be only a small part of an overall problem, or not.
    B5 RS4 : Lightly modified -- C5 2.7 allroad -- B5 A4 1.8 quattro 132 Kw -- UNIMOG 404 TLF8

  4. #4

    Default

    These are the injectors that I purchased from this seller: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Authenti...gAAOxyM1VRZBuX. The Ad states that they are 48mm long so probably the 48.6mm you mentioned. Part numbers on the injectors look as if they have been scratched off, I never noticed this until just now.

    Here are some pictures of the injectors as they are installed now all of them are seated in the same way:
    IMG_20190312_215035.jpg IMG_20190312_215044.jpg IMG_20190312_215140.jpg IMG_20190312_215159.jpg IMG_20190312_215255.jpg IMG_20190312_215440.jpg
    Last edited by Bainos; March 12th, 2019 at 10:45 PM.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IchBautAuto View Post
    I'm coming at this from another angle. I'll say first that it isn't clear exactly how things are set up so you may have covered all bases, just not said so. Aside from Falcos advice which is a direct response to your question, are you running this car on an S4 map? Not clear if the MAF sensor is S4 or RS4. Whats your fuel pressure? You may well have assembly issues resulting in a leak but that could be only a small part of an overall problem, or not.
    Map is a custom "Stage 2" from my tuner in the states, its set up for the 85mm Hitachi MAF that I am using and the 750cc injectors. It is currently only a few revisions in as I only just put the 85mm MAF housing in with all of these parts and thus it needed a new tune to suit that MAF housing size. Fuel pressure is stock S4 regulator (so 4bar?) fuel pump is a walbro 450 (267 model) hardwired in.

  6. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bainos View Post
    These are the injectors that I purchased from this seller: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Authenti...gAAOxyM1VRZBuX. The Ad states that they are 48mm long so probably the 48.6mm you mentioned. Part numbers on the injectors look as if they have been scratched off, I never noticed this until just now.

    Here are some pictures of the injectors as they are installed now all of them are seated in the same way:
    IMG_20190312_215035.jpg IMG_20190312_215044.jpg IMG_20190312_215140.jpg IMG_20190312_215159.jpg IMG_20190312_215255.jpg IMG_20190312_215440.jpg
    Thanks for the pictures. It appears that your injectors are pushed way too far in. You need to use a fuel rail to manifold spacer of 15mm.
    I think you will find the oring has gone passed the end of the port.
    20190306_143136-1612x1209.jpg
    Here are my short injectors and how they are mounted
    Last edited by Falco; March 12th, 2019 at 11:31 PM.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bainos View Post
    Hi all, I have a problem with my S4 B5 hoping someone has been through a similar situation and has a solution:

    I have recently installed essentially an entire RS4 B5 Intake tract on my S4 B5 in preparation for K04s down the track, this includes: RS4 Airbox, 85mm MAF, RS4 Accordian, RS4 Y-Pipe, RS4 Bipipes, RS4 Throttle body, RS4 Manfold and finally a RS4 fuel rail. I used the 034 RS4 fuel rail spacer kit when installing the RS4 fuel rail and EV14 injectors which includes: 6x M13 Copper crush washers, 6x 6mm fuel rail spacers and 6x M6x20mm fuel rail bolts. I also used a 034 transition phenolic spacer to match the RS4 manifold to the S4 heads.

    Since installing the parts I have had the problem of a lean idle where i am getting continuous misfires on all cylinders. After removing everything, reinstalling, checking all clamps were sealing correctly several times over and the manifold installed with gasket sealant and torqued down correctly I finally narrowed down the problem to my Bosch EV14 72lb injectors not sealing correctly against the manifold thus letting in unmetered air into every cylinder. I removed the fuel rail again, replaced the Bosch O-rings that seal against the manifold with thicker OEM O-rings as suggested by a few people on older posts on Audizine however the problem still persisted. After installing all of this and the problem persisting i realised i had missed the copper washers that go around the injectors in the 034 kit that stop them going in too deep so i removed the fuel rail AGAIN and reinstalled. This fixed the problem on all but one cylinder that had a slight lean misfire still so i drove the car a little and it cleared up stopped misfiring and all was good for a couple weeks then today checked again and it was misfiring on one cylinder so i tightened down the fuel rail a bit extra however this caused the misfire to move to another cylinder next to it so i re-tightened and checked again and now had a misfire on two cylinders. Tried tightening again and i was misfiring on most cylinders again. Very frustrating at this point it seems like I am missing something from the puzzle and the only thing I don't have is injector hats however I am unsure if they are needed... I am aware that some EV14 injectors are different lengths thus the need for spacers and hats in some instances but I am unsure which combination I need.

    So in summary: Do I need injector hats, as well as the 034 6mm fuel rail spacers and copper washers when installing Bosch 72lb injectors into an RS4 intake manifold and RS4 fuel rail? If so which ones do I need?

    EV14_RS4_Kit.jpg
    Picture of 034 fuel rail spacer kit.
    I have done what you are trying to do ( entire rs4 intake track) but but with a 100mm loba maf setup on stock bosch But one big change. I ditched the rs4 fuel rail as I thought it was going to be a pain in the arse to make work and block off hose etc and look crap plus my hands on one for a decent price was difficult so ran with 034's fuel rail with 72ib injectors and hats. Would say the 034 kit was not that that great in terms of fitment out of the box The washers they provided were crap and initially the source of leaks and one injector just wouldn't seat so my mechanic had to do some mods to the rail. However that got sorted and no issues what so ever. As you know making the setup work is a pain the arse but I've never understood going stage 3 and maintaining a small s4 throttle body setup. That said reckon Falcos all over it and the 034 injector kit with their hats are tailored for their rails and not suited for rs4 rails. Once you get it sorted gives your tuner a few more options eg fr more boost down low. Good luck with it. Ps a lot of money spent for not big gains on j03s. Get those k04s on and options and boost opens up as well as potential for e85.
    Last edited by smit2100; March 13th, 2019 at 01:56 AM.

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Falco View Post
    Thanks for the pictures. It appears that your injectors are pushed way too far in. You need to use a fuel rail to manifold spacer of 15mm.
    I think you will find the oring has gone passed the end of the port.
    20190306_143136-1612x1209.jpg
    Here are my short injectors and how they are mounted
    Thanks for the reply, that makes a lot of sense being too deep and not sealing properly. Do you know where I can get a set of 15mm spacers and suitable lengthened bolts in Australia? Also it doesn't look like it in your picture but are you using anything similar to the copper washers I am using? I will try this and if it's still not sealing I will probably go the custom fuel rail route as suggested by smit2100 as they do look 1000x better anyway!
    Current: Nogaro 2001 B5 S4 Avant 6SPD - GET Stage 2+ Tune, Bosch 750cc Injectors, Walbro 450 Fuel Pump, Billy Boat 2.5" Catless Downpipes and Exhaust, APR R1 Diverter Valves, Bilstein PSS9 Coilovers, 034 Rear Sway Bar.

    Previous: Black 1999.5 A4 B5 1.8TQ 5SPD - Unknown Stage 1 tune, Turbo Back Exhaust, FK Coilovers, 710N Diverter Valve, Carbonio Intake

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bainos View Post
    Thanks for the reply, that makes a lot of sense being too deep and not sealing properly. Do you know where I can get a set of 15mm spacers and suitable lengthened bolts in Australia? Also it doesn't look like it in your picture but are you using anything similar to the copper washers I am using? I will try this and if it's still not sealing I will probably go the custom fuel rail route as suggested by smit2100 as they do look 1000x better anyway!
    I'm sure you could find some spacers at a local hardware/tool store pretty cheap. Correct that I am not using copper washers, The injectors are sealed using OEM o-rings. Even is I used the copper washers, they would be loose because the injector is sitting higher up.
    There is an injector that is direct fit in the RS4 manifold with fuel rail. It uses Jetronic plug which means no adapter is needed and has the correct spray angle. Bosch EV14 980cc pn. 0280158040. This is what I am using. Using the RS4 fuel rail lets you keep the N249 too.

  10. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Falco View Post
    I'm sure you could find some spacers at a local hardware/tool store pretty cheap. Correct that I am not using copper washers, The injectors are sealed using OEM o-rings. Even is I used the copper washers, they would be loose because the injector is sitting higher up.
    There is an injector that is direct fit in the RS4 manifold with fuel rail. It uses Jetronic plug which means no adapter is needed and has the correct spray angle. Bosch EV14 980cc pn. 0280158040. This is what I am using. Using the RS4 fuel rail lets you keep the N249 too.
    Didn't realise those injectors existed, should have just got those in the first place as they are approx the same price as my 72lb ones. I might look at getting some of those instead of using the spacers and adaptors, simplifies the whole situation since they fit like stock RS4 injectors.

    Just to confirm this is what they look like correct?
    Current: Nogaro 2001 B5 S4 Avant 6SPD - GET Stage 2+ Tune, Bosch 750cc Injectors, Walbro 450 Fuel Pump, Billy Boat 2.5" Catless Downpipes and Exhaust, APR R1 Diverter Valves, Bilstein PSS9 Coilovers, 034 Rear Sway Bar.

    Previous: Black 1999.5 A4 B5 1.8TQ 5SPD - Unknown Stage 1 tune, Turbo Back Exhaust, FK Coilovers, 710N Diverter Valve, Carbonio Intake

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