I had my oil tested by a lab

[pklifter]

Hey,

I thought this might make for a cool discussion.

So I dropped the oil in my S4 for the first time since owning it awhile ago. While it was flowing out I filled a little sample bottle, sent it off to get analysed and here is the results.

2010 B8 S4 - 70,000kms.

https://imgur.com/NisY7HM

https://imgur.com/wOjaMgv

This is essentially my baseline so I will continue to get the samples tested at every interval. Planning on changing it every 5000kms as I don't drive it that much.

EDIT: Can't get pics to auto load, files too big.

[Dingah]

Hi PK.
Not sure what the purpose of this analysis is but a couple of questions to ponder......
do you regard Valvoline as an independent laboratory?
who will judge when elements of the analysis are of concern and if they are what action will you take?


Dingah

Hey,

I thought this might make for a cool discussion.

So I dropped the oil in my S4 for the first time since owning it awhile ago. While it was flowing out I filled a little sample bottle, sent it off to get analysed and here is the results.

2010 B8 S4 - 70,000kms.

https://imgur.com/NisY7HM

https://imgur.com/wOjaMgv

This is essentially my baseline so I will continue to get the samples tested at every interval. Planning on changing it every 5000kms as I don't drive it that much.

EDIT: Can't get pics to auto load, files too big.

[jnrdavo]

I love data.... But as Dingah has said, do you have a purpose for this (are you able to read the data and know if it's 'good', 'bad' or otherwise)??

I'm all for collecting data on most things, but as always, it's being able to read it and then get something useful out..

I'd love to know more about logging data in my S5 and being able to find out if it's running lean at times, or overheated etc.... One day... one day

[pklifter]

I love data.... But as Dingah has said, do you have a purpose for this (are you able to read the data and know if it's 'good', 'bad' or otherwise)??

I'm all for collecting data on most things, but as always, it's being able to read it and then get something useful out..
I'd love to know more about logging data in my S5 and being able to find out if it's running lean at times, or overheated etc.... One day... one day

My Dad runs a business with trucks and he does it on his engines at every service to track the wear and tear. Certain components of engines are generally made out of certain types of metal so if you say have bearings that are copper for instance you can track the wear of those essentially.

I'm more doing it to track wear and tare. I've got no idea how many kms were on the oil or what type of oil was used but from now on I will definitely be doing this at every service. It's so easy and cheap to do.

@jnrdavo Is your car tuned at all? A lot of companies include logging software with their tune cables. It's becoming more and more common, VCDS can do simple logging too right?

Hi PK.
Not sure what the purpose of this analysis is but a couple of questions to ponder......
do you regard Valvoline as an independent laboratory?
who will judge when elements of the analysis are of concern and if they are what action will you take?
Dingah

I don't see what they would gain from inaccurate analysis? The report has recommendations that you can follow on it, did you see them?

This is more to track the wear and tare than anything else. Especially now that I own it and can regularly service it.

Based on this analysis I will continue to monitor the fuel for potential ring / blow by issues. And now Ive added injector cleaning to my list of to do things.

At a cost of only $40 I don't see why others aren't doing it tbh?

I would mind finding a similar service for ATF. Couldn't hurt to get some data on that also.

I don't know I found it interesting to do and so cheap for what you get.

[IchBautAuto]

For those who are scratching their heads, every heavy engine and transport company in the world worth anything does oil analysis daily / weekly / monthly / at oil change time. IF you know what you're doing you can get invaluable info from the results. Back in the day it was all done on the spot with chemicals, blotting paper, comparator cups but true to for spectrographic analysis has taken over.

Is it worth it for a modern car, who knows, probably not if it is in good health as there are few issues to monitor that would be hidden for long but it is a tool for the knowledgeable and a puzzle for others.

[Dingah]

In aviation we have had SOAP (Spectral Oil Analysis Program) in for more than 50 years; more often than not we seem to have used those data to confirm why a particular failure mode occurred post rather than pre-event.
As an engine wears over years and kms driven, parts of the data will change as friction wear and heat take their toll.
The key question is which of those changes are quite normal and safe and which changes might cause alarm and warrant follow-up action?
Likely few if any know what are the safety critical data and worse still, any follow-up to determine what's actually causing those changes will likely require some breaking open of the engine = $$$$$s.
Chasing cause and effect relationships in such data is one of the contributors to why certain military aircraft can require upwards of 60 man hours of maintenance for ever hour flown - imagine the resulting cost in Audi currency!
SOAP for my car's engine is something of academic interest and I will not concern myself with it until there are accredited engineers out there that truly understand this engine, its design and planned wear regime to the point that they can highlight exactly which elements of the SOAP data need monitoring, why and to what effect.
An interesting notion nevertheless.

Dingah

My Dad runs a business with trucks and he does it on his engines at every service to track the wear and tear. Certain components of engines are generally made out of certain types of metal so if you say have bearings that are copper for instance you can track the wear of those essentially.

I'm more doing it to track wear and tare. I've got no idea how many kms were on the oil or what type of oil was used but from now on I will definitely be doing this at every service. It's so easy and cheap to do.

@jnrdavo Is your car tuned at all? A lot of companies include logging software with their tune cables. It's becoming more and more common, VCDS can do simple logging too right?



I don't see what they would gain from inaccurate analysis? The report has recommendations that you can follow on it, did you see them?

This is more to track the wear and tare than anything else. Especially now that I own it and can regularly service it.

Based on this analysis I will continue to monitor the fuel for potential ring / blow by issues. And now Ive added injector cleaning to my list of to do things.

At a cost of only $40 I don't see why others aren't doing it tbh?

I would mind finding a similar service for ATF. Couldn't hurt to get some data on that also.

I don't know I found it interesting to do and so cheap for what you get.

[rockersteady]

Totally worth doing for a new engine, during and post initial break in. Modern or rebuilt older engine. Fresh design in engine has potential unknowns- Especially to the end user- Designs are messed up and pushed ahead regardless- Go back thru recent history here on this Forum- Fuel lifter failures, Poor upper ring design, Intake valve sludging.. new design failures- All can be spotted early with insightful analysis..
Modern engines that pass that threshold of initial failures will go on without need for analysis.
Older design engines with less accuracy in materials used and tolerances with large outlay in capital that if the machine goes down will costs thousands per day in down time versus 20-40 dollars invested in analysing the machine oil.

Rebuilt engines also need this light investment, but action can be difficult. I lost a set of performance cams and new cam followers (lifters) plus needing a replacement cylinder head even after early warning was provided by oil analysis and passed onto the "expert mechanical outfit European Specialist" whom had undertaken the build for me at the time- who chose to disregard it until I insisted a visual inspection take place.

Use a different lab for analysis- many points missing-
Soot/ carbon
Oxidation

Fuel dilution is a concern- The oil viscosity at operating temp is reduced.
things I would do ASAP regarding your oil analysis
1. switch to a 5-40 until you get the fuel contamination resolved
2. Reduce oil change interval (do analysis after 100 running hours and check the dilution and viscosity at 100c - you can compare it to the new oil specs)

Is the programming modified? have the start up fuelling checked, or if mechanical injection find the leak

[IchBautAuto]

Ed has hit all the buttons. Things like cam and follower failure in some Audi are of great concern but personally other markers for bearings etc wouldn't be a priority for me. Fuel dilution, carbon content, coolant traces in oil, and of course the condition of the oil compound is where I would be looking. If all those came up roses then you would have no reason to change your oil early.

The cam issue has been plaguing me for the last few weeks. Scientifically you need several different assembly lubes when building up an engine. No one product does it all. Also, products have moved on from the STP and oil mix of yore. Then there is some evidence that all the old wives are congregated in the engine builder community if you pull together all the tales that abound. People use what seems to work for them but not necessarily remembering that flat and roller followers require different solutions etc.

ZDDP isn't the must have additive in cam lube but it is critical in break in oil. Anyway, I'll see what I end up with.

[rockersteady]

Sliding cams in the Overhead cam'd Audi, zinc is the preferred anti gall agent with such high loads, where an oil film cant be carried on the upper end high spots (don't forget- under the microscope these surfaces are still rough until worn down) of hardened cams and lifters , especially with the sloped contact for imparting lifter (and valve) rotation , Copper and lead (poison and therefore omitted from modern oil formulas) are the best anti gall and can be found in an additive produced by "Pro Ma" but these are such good friction inhibitors that break in will likely be delayed and I only use this occasionally and mainly for the detergent action.

The existing engines with sliding cams didn't suffer the failures reported by many when oil manufacturers were forced to drastically drop zinc levels (with introduction of protect the cat' laws) because they were already sufficiently smooth and no longer required zinc protection.

I recommend ZZDP paste on cam/ lifters assembly (new cams/lifters only) and a multi-grade mineral oil for all the rest of the engine. ensure sufficient engine speed to gain good oil flow and pressure but slow enough to keep the oil from centrifuging off.
ZDDP is great and very high levels for short term are fine- (such as break in oil ) long term very high concentration use will cause pitting/corrosion and damage the cat.

[IchBautAuto]

This is where individuals diverge. I lean towards calcium sulfonate base for the cam lube but use a high ZDDP content breaking in oil. ZDDP requires heat and pressure to activate and this isn't there in the initial 30 seconds. Still essential in the first hours running but I don't see the science behind ZDDP for a flat tappet cam arrangement.

All that said, many use Redline with success and there are a swag of options out there, not all of which get ringing endorsements from actual users that don't review for Amazon.

I tend towards clevite bearing guard for bearings. There are a few similar products on the market and I'm eyeing off another option just to try. They aren't cam lube, Just bearings.