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mic151
May 20th, 2015, 04:30 PM
I have not cut mine open but yeah it's a Bosal exhaust that is wider and shorter than the first resonator. So you are after a better flow and lower noise? The likelihood is that a replacement resonator like one Remus make will set you back $400, plus fitting with minimal (maybe 30%) flow increase, whereas a straight pipe can be done anywhere for $300-$350 and you 100% flow increase, with yes a 15% louder exhaust, however I have had mine now for 3 months and its have quietened down nicely, especially since I have done 800km of highway driving in Dynamic Mode Engine sound mode recently.

The past weekend I though, let me set the Engine sound to dynamic and guess was it was on Dynamic already. I would say since getting it done, the car is now 10% louder at 3,000RPM, after 4,500 it sounds very close to Stock in Dynamic And Comfort Mode with no drone except on cold engine start for the first 60secs until the revs drop down to 800RPM.

Cheers mate. I have a dump pipe on the car now and that has made the tone spot on and am not sure I want it too much louder. I assumed it would be more than 30% flow increase, although I'm no expert. I was thinking of grabbing something like this (Xracing 2 5" High Flow Stainless Steel Resonator Nissan Subaru Honda Mazda | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/221192307477?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)), flange up both ends and throw it in. All materials including flanges and gaskets would be under $200 and maybe another $150 labour for the welding and install. 2nd thoughts now... mmm decisions.

fastgun
May 20th, 2015, 04:44 PM
Cheers mate. I have a dump pipe on the car now and that has made the tone spot on and am not sure I want it too much louder. I assumed it would be more than 30% flow increase, although I'm no expert. I was thinking of grabbing something like this (Xracing 2 5" High Flow Stainless Steel Resonator Nissan Subaru Honda Mazda | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/221192307477?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)), flange up both ends and throw it in. All materials including flanges and gaskets would be under $200 and maybe another $150 labour for the welding and install. 2nd thoughts now... mmm decisions.

Ok yeah sure a DownPipe + resonator delete will make it louder, I would be skeptical of $99 resonator though, maybe it's just me but my 2c worth of advice would be rather stick with the stock Bosal system than throw in a $99 cheapie....

aantss
May 20th, 2015, 04:50 PM
The primary reason why the catalytic converters are as close to the engine is for the them to get up to operating temp as quickly as possible as very high percentage of the pollution is emitted at the startup / warm up phase. Secondly as catalytic converters need heat to work, for street driven cars to ensure the "cat" maintains the optimal operation temp it has to be as close to the heat source as possible. The reason why I highlighted street car is for those who had a tracked their "street" cars seriously would know what the excess heat with prolonged WOT would do to the "cat", for this reason WRC cars have their "cats" at the rear of the exhaust systems.

Secondly with regards to your comment on turbo sizing, I would go one step further and say the configuration of the turbo housing (A/R, size of compressor / turbine, single / twin scroll etc) is also very important to the overall response of the engine.

So are you saying for mainly a street driven car, a downpipe with the cat as close to the engine as possible is better? But a car that is used at the track occasionally, one with the cat further away would be better suited?

satanic
May 20th, 2015, 09:16 PM
So are you saying for mainly a street driven car, a downpipe with the cat as close to the engine as possible is better? But a car that is used at the track occasionally, one with the cat further away would be better suited?

Yes... because at a track you are more likely to hit WOT - more regularly, and for prolonged periods of time. The heat that comes out of your engine will more than likely kill the cat by overheating the catalyst inside. Not only would it not be doing its job, it'll more than likely get ruined and coated in carbon, clogging the system up and ruining your drive home from the track.

200sxr
May 21st, 2015, 11:30 AM
So are you saying for mainly a street driven car, a downpipe with the cat as close to the engine as possible is better? But a car that is used at the track occasionally, one with the cat further away would be better suited?

As satanic has suggested the heat can kill the catalytic converter. At best it will stop it functioning as a catalytic converters (ie reducing the emission of pollutants) worse the substrate can fail and create a restriction in your exhaust system. I am not sure what is substrate is used within these cat converters of the s3 however if it is the metal type the chance of substrate failure is much smaller.

IMO if you track your car often and it is a daily one solution is to fabricate a pipe to remove the cat section of the exhaust and put it on when you get to the track and put the cat back on when you leave.... a little like you would with the wheel alignment.

I believe relocating the cat from factory location will potentially require a engineer's certificate and emission test.

If you only track you car every now and then I think the best solution is to enjoy tracking your car however keeping in mind the cat can fail and keep an eye on it.

mp2811
May 21st, 2015, 08:04 PM
Check out the list of mods on HP MK7R in 2015 tuner challenge! No doubt Guy has set world record time on stock turbo! I'm excited to see the results!
Muller and Muller - Audi and Volkswagen high performance vehicle gallery. (http://www.mullerandmuller.com.au/tune-it-experience-it-love-it)

roadrunner
May 23rd, 2015, 08:08 AM
Here is an M3's (F80) exhaust system....cats are way back!

http://www.ozaudi.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22544&stc=1

As per the 1M I used to have the primary cats where also a reasonable distance from the turbo. The OE cats on the 1M where high-flow and going catless offered only small gains.
http://www.ozaudi.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22545&stc=1

roadrunner
May 23rd, 2015, 10:56 AM
So apparently the downside to the BCS DP is the loud rattle below 2000rpm and at start up. Maybe Milltek DP would be quieter?

mp2811
May 23rd, 2015, 01:27 PM
Spoke to a couple of tuners yesterday and was very impressed with their brutal honesty regarding going stage 2! Was told that basically if stage 1 with intake it's pretty much waste of time going stage 2! Very minimal gains !

Possibly once APR DP and DSG tunes released maybe tune will be tweaked with more torque and make it more gain.

mobs
May 23rd, 2015, 01:47 PM
Very minimal gains !

The apr graphs show a lot more torque earlier on and holding to later - I'd love to know what this does for drivability (which is already excellent).

Bring on stage 3 with the EFR :mrgreen:

mp2811
May 23rd, 2015, 02:10 PM
The apr graphs show a lot more torque earlier on and holding to later - I'd love to know what this does for drivability (which is already excellent).

Bring on stage 3 with the EFR :mrgreen:

I've seen graph but looking at stage 1 with intake graph that guy posted previously showed nice low end torque gain from intake alone. Appears intake brings in spool 200-300 rpm sooner and DP the same. No doubt best combo but looking at $2-2500 for DP/stage 2! Super expensive when tune/intake on dale 2100 with massive gains!

200sxr
May 23rd, 2015, 04:28 PM
Here is an M3's (F80) exhaust system....cats are way back!

http://www.ozaudi.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22544&stc=1

As per the 1M I used to have the primary cats where also a reasonable distance from the turbo. The OE cats on the 1M where high-flow and going catless offered only small gains.
http://www.ozaudi.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22545&stc=1

No trying to be argumentative, the S55 twin turbo I6 in the F80 M3 / M4 do have primary cats right close to the turbos.

http://www.ozaudi.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=22547&stc=1

I doubt manufacturers can get away with one set of cat with EURO 5 / 6 emission standard.

CanberraS3
May 23rd, 2015, 06:28 PM
The apr graphs show a lot more torque earlier on and holding to later - I'd love to know what this does for drivability (which is already excellent).

Bring on stage 3 with the EFR :mrgreen:
S

i know it's a few k, but there is a noticeable difference with a dp and very happy I went that way. A almost a week I now the exhaust is louder and under wot the dsg farts are a lot louder. Getting the stage 2 tune when it's released will be even better!

roadrunner
May 23rd, 2015, 07:20 PM
No trying to be argumentative, the S55 twin turbo I6 in the F80 M3 / M4 do have primary cats right close to the turbos.



I doubt manufacturers can get away with one set of cat with EURO 5 / 6 emission standard.
Yes, the point was the aftermarket versions (like TAG MS have in the photo) don't, sorry, should have been specific. The 1M also had secondary cats in the mid pipe, which once removed added 10 Kw at the wheels.

Got to keep in mind the trade off with changing cats....noise and more smell for a 'race' cat. @CanberraS3 how does the Milltek sound/smell?

CanberraS3
May 23rd, 2015, 08:37 PM
Yes, the point was the aftermarket versions (like TAG MS have in the photo) don't, sorry, should have been specific. The 1M also had secondary cats in the mid pipe, which once removed added 10 Kw at the wheels.

Got to keep in mind the trade off with changing cats....noise and more smell for a 'race' cat. @CanberraS3 how does the Milltek sound/smell?

no smell that I've noticed but a better sound. In Sydney this weekend and noticing an increased sound and blurb with gear shifts. To put this way, the window is down and it sounds like a car with much more intent

CanberraS3
May 23rd, 2015, 08:40 PM
no smell that I've noticed but a better sound. In Sydney this weekend and noticing an increased sound and blurb with gear shifts. To put this way, the window is down and it sounds like a car with much more intent

On that to there was a certain s3 with dp air intake and stage 1 apr tune that had an 335 supercharged fpv and xr6 turbo on its ass from nowhere at 120 on the f3 today.... Wow they were a fading memory in its mirrors and they wanted to race

roadrunner
May 23rd, 2015, 10:19 PM
no smell that I've noticed but a better sound. In Sydney this weekend and noticing an increased sound and blurb with gear shifts. To put this way, the window is down and it sounds like a car with much more intent
good to know. bloke in UK with BCS DP say very loud like a 'can of bolts' under 2000 rpm

mp2811
May 28th, 2015, 06:26 PM
WEDNESDAY NIGHT DRAGS AT EASTERN CREEK 27.5.2015 - Muller and Muller (http://www.mullerandmuller.com.au/news/wednesday-night-drags-at-eastern-creek-2752015)

Check link out for fastest stage 1 MK7R last night. Super impressive time and trap speed!

T_S3
June 2nd, 2015, 04:27 PM
good to know. bloke in UK with BCS DP say very loud like a 'can of bolts' under 2000 rpm

Is this who you're talking about RR?

https://youtu.be/WZYWv-nTTkk

Khoa
June 2nd, 2015, 05:56 PM
WEDNESDAY NIGHT DRAGS AT EASTERN CREEK 27.5.2015 - Muller and Muller (http://www.mullerandmuller.com.au/news/wednesday-night-drags-at-eastern-creek-2752015)

Check link out for fastest stage 1 MK7R last night. Super impressive time and trap speed!

Is the Golf allwheeldrive or it's running on Semi slick? Impressive 60' foot time.

mp2811
June 2nd, 2015, 07:06 PM
Is the Golf allwheeldrive or it's running on Semi slick? Impressive 60' foot time.

The golf R is AWD and this was running street tyres. Super impressive effort.

fastgun
July 23rd, 2015, 09:15 AM
We have a live test case, 11,000 miles untuned, 1,000 miles APR Stage 1 and a blown turbo, April 2014 build so looks like it may have got the faulty turbo batch...

http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/index.php?threads/249409

The guy is planning to reflash and go to Audi.

roadrunner
July 23rd, 2015, 09:29 AM
We have a live test case, 11,000 miles untuned, 1,000 miles APR Stage 1 and a blown turbo, April 2014 build so looks like it may have got the faulty turbo batch...

HELP!!!!! | Audi-Sport.net (http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/index.php?threads/249409)

The guy is planning to reflash and go to Audi.

Yep, any tune will add stress on components such as turbos and accelerate failure of already faulty hardware. Then car in question is early 2014 which have turbo failures.

If you going to try to scam Audi though by covering up, I wouldn't advertise the fact on a public forum ;)

fastgun
July 23rd, 2015, 09:34 AM
If you going to try to scam Audi though by covering up, I wouldn't advertise the fact on a public forum ;)

Eggzacary!!!

ewok666
July 23rd, 2015, 09:45 AM
Yep, any tune will add stress on components such as turbos and accelerate failure of already faulty hardware. Then car in question is early 2014 which have turbo failures.

If you going to try to scam Audi though by covering up, I wouldn't advertise the fact on a public forum ;)

I wouldn't exactly call it scamming. The turbo would have likely failed before the end of the warranty period as it was from the faulty batch period. Isn't Audi (in pure theory!) required to prove that the modification caused the failure before denying warranty. Now, I don't want to start another warranty discussion and I know that they can do pretty much what they want to but that doesn't make his actions a scam.

Remarcabull
July 23rd, 2015, 11:16 AM
We have a live test case, 11,000 miles untuned, 1,000 miles APR Stage 1 and a blown turbo, April 2014 build so looks like it may have got the faulty turbo batch...

HELP!!!!! | Audi-Sport.net (http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/index.php?threads/249409)

The guy is planning to reflash and go to Audi.

Another one bites the dust, poor guy, seems like hes taking it well tho, hes damn lucky his engine wasnt destroyed...

satanic
July 23rd, 2015, 11:27 AM
Unless there's some trick way Audi has set the turbos up on the S3, one giving up shouldn't destroy the engine... most of it will probably just end up going through the exhaust, so the only other thing that would get destroyed would be your cat / muffler.

Remarcabull
July 23rd, 2015, 11:46 AM
Unless there's some trick way Audi has set the turbos up on the S3, one giving up shouldn't destroy the engine... most of it will probably just end up going through the exhaust, so the only other thing that would get destroyed would be your cat / muffler.

Some have had the intake blades hit and shatter metal particles though the intercooler and into the intake manifold.

satanic
July 23rd, 2015, 12:16 PM
You'd think after all these years of turbo technology, the companies would procure units with bullet proof wheels to avoid such simple issues hey?

domino_z
July 23rd, 2015, 01:10 PM
guy in uk blows turbo

nek minnit

inbeforeitsallaprsfaultreflashesarethedevil

mobs
July 23rd, 2015, 01:39 PM
Bugger, as an early '14 build with 18,000 km of punishment I was hoping I was out of the woods when it came to blown turbos :(

aantss
July 23rd, 2015, 06:32 PM
My cousin is a tech at vw, a golf R came in with a blown turbo. Had a REVO tune and full turbo back exhaust. The tune was not removed, he contacted vw about what action to take, also said please be aware this car has a flash tune, they just replied and said please replace turbo as per TSB.

fung9420
July 23rd, 2015, 06:48 PM
My cousin is a tech at vw, a golf R came in with a blown turbo. Had a REVO tune and full turbo back exhaust. The tune was not removed, he contacted vw about what action to take, also said please be aware this car has a flash tune, they just replied and said please replace turbo as per TSB.


Good customer service.
For those customer service focused big company, if they can do this for the customers, I don't see questions on losing customers. The customers with tuned VW or Audi are only small ratio of the customers counts. The more positive noise from the customers; the better for the company in the long run.

dstama
July 23rd, 2015, 09:33 PM
guy in uk blows turbo

nek minnit

inbeforeitsallaprsfaultreflashesarethedevil

To be fair... if it was ABT all hell would break loose

A.U.D.I.
July 24th, 2015, 08:23 AM
inbeforeitsallaprsfaultreflashesarethedevil
withtheaprtcubrickingmqbcarsperhapsnowwecanstopbag gingalltunersandacceptotherschoices

satanic
July 24th, 2015, 08:42 AM
withtheaprtcubrickingmqbcarsperhapsnowwecanstopbag gingalltunersandacceptotherschoices

LOL what? Surely not given the thousands of hours of testing the company does to ensure quality & safety (so the marketing says).


Sent from my iPhone

st_za
July 24th, 2015, 02:12 PM
withtheaprtcubrickingmqbcarsperhapsnowwecanstopbag gingalltunersandacceptotherschoices

This makes my brain hurt. I need alcohol to euthanize the injured brain cells.

domino_z
July 24th, 2015, 02:31 PM
withtheaprtcubrickingmqbcarsperhapsnowwecanstopbag gingalltunersandacceptotherschoices

sure we can

we have a dsg tune local to us from HP

but i rekon by the time you start sifting through google for reviews and fueled another 50+ page fanboy brand thread, apr would have released tcu v2.0

A.U.D.I.
July 24th, 2015, 05:59 PM
sure we can

we have a dsg tune local to us from HP

but i rekon by the time you start sifting through google for reviews and fueled another 50+ page fanboy brand thread, apr would have released tcu v2.0

Are you going the HP route for this then, given his recent advice that it's reversible?

Time I get my finances sorted, I recon we'll be on APR TCU 5.0... / or an all electric S3 to put it into financial context :(

domino_z
July 24th, 2015, 09:00 PM
most likely, seems like a good option

my apr tuner has the hp dsg tune on his golf r, so it's just a matter of finding time to get down there and test drive it

roadrunner
July 26th, 2015, 08:07 PM
Took the S3 out today for a 200km drive early morning.... APR S1 + Michelin PSS... so much I could say, keeping in mind this is a family saloon, not a Cayman S... the power and handling is relentless and sublime for a 4 door saloon. Well done Audi & APR, great package!

domino_z
July 26th, 2015, 09:39 PM
+1 on that combo

plenty of midrange torque that it's effortless stringing corners together

i'm a big fan of chassis tuning on this platform, can't wait to do my favourite run back to back once i fit the superpro arms

totoro.kcy
July 26th, 2015, 10:34 PM
Hi all,

Picked up the new car last week and was straight to Fast Stuff for some APR goodies (stage 1 tune, air intake, muffler delete), impressive gains, thanks to Brett and the team there.
Even the missus was happy with the improved power, can't wait for the DSG tune as there is a little bit more lag now.

Cheers guys.

satanic
July 26th, 2015, 10:43 PM
+1 on that combo

plenty of midrange torque that it's effortless stringing corners together

i'm a big fan of chassis tuning on this platform, can't wait to do my favourite run back to back once i fit the superpro arms

Will you also be doing sway bars?

I'm in the same camp; love making the car feel & handle better - IMO a lot more rewarding than simply upping the power.

FX rate is crap at the moment, makes pulling the trigger on some of the components rather difficult :P

domino_z
July 26th, 2015, 11:46 PM
Will you also be doing sway bars?

I'm in the same camp; love making the car feel & handle better - IMO a lot more rewarding than simply upping the power.

FX rate is crap at the moment, makes pulling the trigger on some of the components rather difficult :P

ive already done sways

did rear h&r during my armytrix install, was great, a bit of passive rear steer off throttle on corner tip in, helps lean front in and neutralized tendency to push in front

then did the front sway and understeer city - handling physics 101, when a car is fwd biased, last thing you do is stiffen the front. yet despite the warnings i still added the front thinking well they sell these things as a kit, and even offer the front adjustable.... waste of time

have since removed the front sway and running h&r rear only

i'm also adding eibach pro kit with the control arms since i have to re-align, but that's more of a visual decision

next up will be a light weight 19x8.5 wheel

i came out of an evo x with ohlins coilovers + full whiteline catalogie. the S3 is nowhere near evo standards of handling, but the small things ive done so far (rear sway, wider/extended contact patch with grippier tyres) have made a very noticeable improvement over stock

satanic
July 27th, 2015, 01:25 AM
ive already done sways

did rear h&r during my armytrix install, was great, a bit of passive rear steer off throttle on corner tip in, helps lean front in and neutralized tendency to push in front

then did the front sway and understeer city - handling physics 101, when a car is fwd biased, last thing you do is stiffen the front. yet despite the warnings i still added the front thinking well they sell these things as a kit, and even offer the front adjustable.... waste of time

have since removed the front sway and running h&r rear only

i'm also adding eibach pro kit with the control arms since i have to re-align, but that's more of a visual decision

next up will be a light weight 19x8.5 wheel

i came out of an evo x with ohlins coilovers + full whiteline catalogie. the S3 is nowhere near evo standards of handling, but the small things ive done so far (rear sway, wider/extended contact patch with grippier tyres) have made a very noticeable improvement over stock

I'll be doing a RSB soon enough, but will also look at some chassis bracing to stiffen the mid-section of the car up. Hopefully Whiteline also do some subframe inserts to stiffen things up, these made a big difference on my BMW. Tyres will probably be after that and together with H&R springs and the wider track (via the spacers) I should have something that handles much better than stock (hopefully)!

domino_z
July 27th, 2015, 02:43 PM
i'm very skeptical about those unibrace things across the tunnel - that really is the stiffest part of the chassis and i can't see it making any difference beyond a placebo effect

if they were running bracing from the front subframe to the chassis than i'd buy into the hype

another thing to note, the S3 uses a stronger solid alu front subframe cradle than the Golf R which is a regular cast part - a few people in the know with Golf R's are swapping them over - same with the front control arms

satanic
July 27th, 2015, 04:31 PM
i'm very skeptical about those unibrace things across the tunnel - that really is the stiffest part of the chassis and i can't see it making any difference beyond a placebo effect

if they were running bracing from the front subframe to the chassis than i'd buy into the hype

another thing to note, the S3 uses a stronger solid alu front subframe cradle than the Golf R which is a regular cast part - a few people in the know with Golf R's are swapping them over - same with the front control arms

Yeah definitely not the trans tunnel bracing, a waste of money considering the amount of cladding there already and the geometry. Was thinking more B pillar to B pillar, or anything similar that ties the sides of the car together and reduce twisting forces on the chassis. Not that the S3 has a very long wheelbase, but it still no coupe.

Interesting re front subframe bushes, I wonder if it's the same out back?

aantss
July 27th, 2015, 05:52 PM
How do we know when/if APR bring out a tune update? Also is there any rough eta on stage 2(Guy)?

domino_z
July 27th, 2015, 08:35 PM
Interesting re front subframe bushes, I wonder if it's the same out back?

it's not the bushes, it's the subframe cradle itself

re bracing, even b to b, i still can't see how it'd be effective as you're not going to get twisting where the chassis is at it's strongest - ie door apertures

if you had a hatch, than maybe bracing the rear suspension turrets together at the c pillar would do something tangible

ewok666
July 28th, 2015, 10:35 AM
Wanted to get my MY15 (built March 15) flashed today....no go...new tuning protection. Crap.

Rick -S3
July 28th, 2015, 10:44 AM
That's interesting mate. Mine was built at the same time and I am now curious....

I am running a JB1 tuning box at the moment and love it but was interested in trying out a APR tune to see if there is any difference.

Might pop down and see if can be done first.

aantss
July 28th, 2015, 10:48 AM
Wanted to get my MY15 (built March 15) flashed today....no go...new tuning protection. Crap.

Mine was built mid Feb, got it successfully tuned couple of weeks ago with APR.

ewok666
July 28th, 2015, 10:55 AM
That's interesting mate. Mine was built at the same time and I am now curious....

I am running a JB1 tuning box at the moment and love it but was interested in trying out a APR tune to see if there is any difference.

Might pop down and see if can be done first.

Yeah, might order a JB1 as well now. Who knows WHEN they will crack the new encryption.

roadrunner
July 28th, 2015, 11:45 AM
Wanted to get my MY15 (built March 15) flashed today....no go...new tuning protection. Crap.


That's interesting mate. Mine was built at the same time and I am now curious....

I am running a JB1 tuning box at the moment and love it but was interested in trying out a APR tune to see if there is any difference.

Might pop down and see if can be done first.

Seems that flash tuners are struggling with the newer box codes. What are your build dates?

Remarcabull
July 28th, 2015, 12:03 PM
Yeah, might order a JB1 as well now. Who knows WHEN they will crack the new encryption.

Its going to take a while, and with the new Digital hardware sensors its not going to be viable much longer.

A.U.D.I.
July 28th, 2015, 12:10 PM
Wanted to get my MY15 (built March 15) flashed today....no go...new tuning protection. Crap.
Does this apply to all MY15s

ewok666
July 28th, 2015, 12:20 PM
Does this apply to all MY15s

As I understand it only March onwards but the exact date is unknown.

Remarcabull
July 28th, 2015, 12:21 PM
Does this apply to all MY15s

I believe production date Feb onwards.
I have been mentioning this was coming ages back when i was tossing up between ABT and MTM, but what im unsure of is if they have implemented what my German contact told me, that ANY Audi upon service will be updated with new encryption codes meaning if your flash tuned you wont be able to get it flashed again unless they have new decryption encryption keys.

The new vehicles all coming out of the factory are going one step further with digital sensors. EG RS3, S4 etc. I dont believe they are going to be financially viable options to try hack.

This begs another question, Will flash tuners offer a refund if you unable to flash back after a service?

roadrunner
July 28th, 2015, 12:21 PM
Does this apply to all MY15s
ECU box codes ending with 'H'...around Feb 2015. Also make sure your dealer doesn't update your ECU.

satanic
July 28th, 2015, 12:25 PM
I believe production date Feb onwards.
I have been mentioning this was coming ages back when i was tossing up between ABT and MTM, but what im unsure of is if they have implemented what my German contact told me, that ANY Audi upon service will be updated with new encryption codes meaning if your flash tuned you wont be able to get it flashed again unless they have new decryption encryption keys.

The new vehicles all coming out of the factory are going one step further with digital sensors. EG RS3, S4 etc. I dont believe they are going to be financially viable options to try hack.

This begs another question, Will flash tuners offer a refund if you unable to flash back after a service?

Can you please elaborate on the digital sensors and how this differs to what we have today?

Some interesting times ahead, but it's to be expected given how much technology is in cars these days.


Sent from my iPhone

WarwickL
July 28th, 2015, 12:27 PM
All good. MY16 S3's from BW36 on come with a revised tune - 280 kW stock :)

Who needs a third party tune .... thanks Audi

satanic
July 28th, 2015, 12:29 PM
All good. MY16 S3's from BW36 on come with a revised tune - 280 kW stock :)

Who needs a third party tune .... thanks Audi

280kw from a S3???


Sent from my iPhone

WarwickL
July 28th, 2015, 12:30 PM
280kw from a S3???


Sent from my iPhone


My poor attempt at humour ;)

Remarcabull
July 28th, 2015, 12:41 PM
Can you please elaborate on the digital sensors and how this differs to what we have today?

Some interesting times ahead, but it's to be expected given how much technology is in cars these days.


Sent from my iPhone

Dont know much more, ill have a chat with him later in the week and see what else is changing across the brand.

ewok666
July 28th, 2015, 12:49 PM
Does anyone know whether the Burger Tuning JB1 will work on the 210kw CJXF engines?

satanic
July 28th, 2015, 12:52 PM
Does anyone know whether the Burger Tuning JB1 will work on the 210kw CJXF engines?

Yes it does, I'm running one now.

A.U.D.I.
July 28th, 2015, 01:36 PM
ECU box codes ending with 'H'...around Feb 2015. Also make sure your dealer doesn't update your ECU.
Where will I find that code RR?

roadrunner
July 28th, 2015, 01:54 PM
Can you please elaborate on the digital sensors and how this differs to what we have today?

Some interesting times ahead, but it's to be expected given how much technology is in cars these days.


Sent from my iPhone

BMW Mottorad is talking of doing this on their bikes. Each plug has a chip on it which I assume sends a encrypted signal to CANBus

roadrunner
July 28th, 2015, 01:59 PM
Where will I find that code RR?With VCDS, the ECU part number will tell you, or should be on the label sticker on the actual ECU. Should start with "8V....."

Joecool
July 28th, 2015, 05:26 PM
Makes piggyback systems all the more attractive now....

roadrunner
July 28th, 2015, 06:26 PM
Makes piggyback systems all the more attractive now....
Both software & hardware paths are going to get tricky to crack.

If you have a newer S3 you'll have to wait a few months for them to crack the codes. They always crack them though.

Piggybacks are also heading down the same problem path with digital sensors, but again these will be cracked. The ECU will also probably be locked with proper anti-tamper devices which will screw the likes of ABT.

Simple, if TD1 worries you then wait 3 years.

roadrunner
July 28th, 2015, 06:36 PM
I believe production date Feb onwards.
I have been mentioning this was coming ages back when i was tossing up between ABT and MTM, but what im unsure of is if they have implemented what my German contact told me, that ANY Audi upon service will be updated with new encryption codes meaning if your flash tuned you wont be able to get it flashed again unless they have new decryption encryption keys.

The new vehicles all coming out of the factory are going one step further with digital sensors. EG RS3, S4 etc. I dont believe they are going to be financially viable options to try hack.

This begs another question, Will flash tuners offer a refund if you unable to flash back after a service?

IIRC the dealers usually don't plug the car in via the OBD2, rather they scan the key FOB. My dealer certainly does not have a PC with ODB2 connections at every hoist.

If you instruct your Audi dealer not to flash your car they won't. The car doesn't have to be plugged in to be serviced. Furthermore I seriously doubt that dealers/Audi will update every car by default as it is costly and time consuming to do. I simply have my OBD2 port locked and the SA has no problem with that.

Joecool
July 28th, 2015, 06:39 PM
I'm just thinking along the lines of wanting an upgrade while I have Audi corporate.

When I first got my A4 I wanted to Revo chip it, and the car had oil burning issues which is well known in the B8 2.0L engines. Can you imagine the bag of hurt I'd have gone through if I had the upgrade done and trying to get them to fix the oil burning?? They'd have pointed to the Revo remap and washed their hands.... I just don't want another potential scenario....

Fab_R
July 28th, 2015, 07:19 PM
all audi dealers do plug in before any service work. Something to do with SWR.

Korny
July 28th, 2015, 09:05 PM
ive already done sways

did rear h&r during my armytrix install, was great, a bit of passive rear steer off throttle on corner tip in, helps lean front in and neutralized tendency to push in front

then did the front sway and understeer city - handling physics 101, when a car is fwd biased, last thing you do is stiffen the front. yet despite the warnings i still added the front thinking well they sell these things as a kit, and even offer the front adjustable.... waste of time

have since removed the front sway and running h&r rear only

i'm also adding eibach pro kit with the control arms since i have to re-align, but that's more of a visual decision

next up will be a light weight 19x8.5 wheel

i came out of an evo x with ohlins coilovers + full whiteline catalogie. the S3 is nowhere near evo standards of handling, but the small things ive done so far (rear sway, wider/extended contact patch with grippier tyres) have made a very noticeable improvement over stock

Bingo...exactly what Brad @ Heasmans outlined and hence why I only did the rear H&R sway bar.


Sent from Korny's iPad using Tapatalk

roadrunner
July 28th, 2015, 10:15 PM
all audi dealers do plug in before any service work. Something to do with SWR.
Guess I'll find out tomorrow as going in for a warranty fix on A/C again....

aantss
July 28th, 2015, 11:19 PM
Guess I'll find out tomorrow as going in for a warranty fix on A/C again....

What is your a/c doing, RR? I think I may have a problem with mine also..

roadrunner
July 29th, 2015, 12:17 AM
What is your a/c doing, RR? I think I may have a problem with mine also..
Already had A/C compressor replaced when new as was working intermittently, now months later same again.

Joecool
July 29th, 2015, 12:50 AM
Already had A/C compressor replaced when new as was working intermittently, now months later same again.
careful, they might blame the ECU flash....:rofl1:

roadrunner
July 29th, 2015, 10:33 AM
all audi dealers do plug in before any service work. Something to do with SWR.
Dropped my S3 in today and service manager confirmed that the car doesn't require ELSA connection for servicing, however it won't be logged in the Audi systems as serviced, only dealer stamped in the log book. Effectively the same as getting serviced at a non-Audi workshop. Unless requested, the car will be connected.

For any warranty related work the car has to be connected to the ELSA system.

satanic
July 29th, 2015, 10:45 AM
Dropped my S3 in today and service manager confirmed that the car doesn't require ELSA connection for servicing, however it won't be logged in the Audi systems as serviced, only dealer stamped in the log book. Effectively the same as getting serviced at a non-Audi workshop. Unless requested, the car will be connected.

For any warranty related work the car has to be connected to the ELSA system.

So does that mean your car will be plugged in given it's in for a warranty job on the AC unit? Or did you flash your ECU back to stock for the visit?

roadrunner
July 29th, 2015, 11:28 AM
So does that mean your car will be plugged in given it's in for a warranty job on the AC unit? Or did you flash your ECU back to stock for the visit?
Stock of course

WarwickL
July 29th, 2015, 12:29 PM
Dropped my S3 in today and service manager confirmed that the car doesn't require ELSA connection for servicing, however it won't be logged in the Audi systems as serviced, only dealer stamped in the log book. Effectively the same as getting serviced at a non-Audi workshop. Unless requested, the car will be connected.

For any warranty related work the car has to be connected to the ELSA system.


Same goes with VW. Last service I locked my P3 gauge connected to the port. Wasn't touched.

T_S3
July 29th, 2015, 12:34 PM
Stock of course

Be interested to see if they flag it. (Waits patently).

roadrunner
July 29th, 2015, 12:44 PM
Be interested to see if they flag it. (Waits patently).
Off to pickup now. I am going to try to get them to show me the ELSA...

ewok666
July 29th, 2015, 01:20 PM
Off to pickup now. I am going to try to get them to show me the ELSA...

How much are you paying to flash to stock anbd and re-flash the tune?

roadrunner
July 29th, 2015, 02:33 PM
So does that mean your car will be plugged in given it's in for a warranty job on the AC unit? Or did you flash your ECU back to stock for the visit?
Picked up my car. The tech showed me how ELSA works on my car. We did a diagnostic scan and checked for updates. Updates are optional and there were updates for MMI & ECU modules. He said that they refrain from doing updates as it can take up a fair amount of time and they only do them if re-call or warranty related. i.e. if it ain't broke don't fix it.

No auto-update when plugged in

No TD1 under the ELSA screen!

Driving this car stock sucks! APR flashed again... no charge

A.U.D.I.
July 29th, 2015, 03:39 PM
Picked up my car...Updates are optional and there were updates for MMI & ECU modules...
If the MMI one fixes the lousy pronouncing GPS Nav....I'm taking it

sammo
July 30th, 2015, 02:04 PM
He said that they refrain from doing updates as it can take up a fair amount of time and they only do them if re-call or warranty related. i.e. if it ain't broke don't fix it.

It doesn't take hours to update a flash tune, even over the internet in real time. And they don't sit there waiting for it, they do other jobs. Just like the 2 hrs labour they charge for a minor service when it only takes about 45 mins to change the oil and do a quick inspection. Thieves.

crc
August 7th, 2015, 08:39 AM
Looks like Stage 2 tune has just been released:

APR High Output 2.0 TSI/TFSI Gen3 ECU Upgrade for the MQB Platform (http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_20tsi_gen3_mqb_r.html)

Don't know when "Rest of world" makes it to our shores though...

roadrunner
August 7th, 2015, 09:00 AM
Looks like Stage 2 tune has just been released:

APR High Output 2.0 TSI/TFSI Gen3 ECU Upgrade for the MQB Platform (http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_20tsi_gen3_mqb_r.html)

Don't know when "Rest of world" makes it to our shores though...
Buy the APR downpipe and you get the S2 free

domino_z
August 7th, 2015, 11:08 AM
still waiting for this......APR dp unreleased and Stage 2 unreleased in Aus

seems weird they'd release the tune before they can bundle the hardware to you as well, just drives a whole bunch of ppl to buy non-apr dp's

Jeffro
August 7th, 2015, 12:56 PM
I'm absolutely loving the APR Stage 1 tune on my manual sedan - apparently was the first S3 manual tuned at EA
Coming from a Viezu Stage 2 Golf R, I feel a lot more torque and responsiveness overall
Only other mod is the VWR air panel filter :-P

roadrunner
August 7th, 2015, 02:14 PM
still waiting for this......APR dp unreleased and Stage 2 unreleased in Aus

seems weird they'd release the tune before they can bundle the hardware to you as well, just drives a whole bunch of ppl to buy non-apr dp's
DP due for release in Sep/Oct I was told. Not sure on the RHD one though

Gooniebomb
August 7th, 2015, 09:11 PM
Buy the APR downpipe and you get the S2 free

Bit of a N00b question, but do you mean that just the cost of the down pipe you get the stage 2 tune thrown in? Or do you have to fork out the dollars for the previous S1 tune as well? Cheers


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

andrewjamesdean
August 7th, 2015, 09:44 PM
You get a free upgrade from Stage 1 when you buy the APR downpipe - you still have to have paid for the initial tune

domino_z
August 27th, 2015, 12:22 PM
is anyone running a hfc dp on stage 1 and can confirm no issues with cel or running lean?

mic151
August 27th, 2015, 12:48 PM
is anyone running a hfc dp on stage 1 and can confirm no issues with cel or running lean?

Yep, been running mine for about 2 months now and no issues.

domino_z
August 27th, 2015, 01:13 PM
Yep, been running mine for about 2 months now and no issues.

does your dp have the cat before or after the o2 bung?

edit looks like the bull x puts the cat in oem location, so bung is after it

my bcs puts o2 bung before cat, think ill have to use an o2 spacer as its going to read higher flow

mic151
August 27th, 2015, 09:47 PM
does your dp have the cat before or after the o2 bung?

edit looks like the bull x puts the cat in oem location, so bung is after it

my bcs puts o2 bung before cat, think ill have to use an o2 spacer as its going to read higher flow

spot on, cat in OEM location, but Bull-X still provided spacer just to make certain no CEL light. For $20 or so, it's definitely worth it.

omarko
September 2nd, 2015, 09:45 AM
so for the stage 1 tune, is it recommended to change the clutch packs ? if yes, whats the additional cost again on those including labor ?

WarwickL
September 2nd, 2015, 10:13 AM
The stock clutch packs are perfectly fine on a Stage 1. They can easily handle the extra power and torque.

With all tunes, you will always get faster wear on components such as plugs, coilpacks etc but the clutch is unlikely to be a concern.

Of course, if you are using LC regularly, expect premature death. I think the usage number was around 50 for LC.

domino_z
September 2nd, 2015, 11:55 AM
it's still a wet clutch, so a little slip on stage 1 isn't going to fry it like a traditional manual would in similar situation

but i do make it a point not to put the car in a situation where it would slip - ie; accelerating hard in higher gears at low rpm

Aussie Audi Guy
September 3rd, 2015, 11:45 AM
Stock clutches are very robust - the whole unit is very temperature sensitive & it's almost impossible to damage them because they are oil bathed (especially at stage 1 / 2 level). Once they detect a certain clutch oil exit temperature, the DSG will put you in a temporary limp mode until the temp drops (usually pops you into 3rd gear) and gives you a dash warning. With age, they do wear out, but that is a long way off yet.

In my car, that took 18 - 20 consecutive launches (about 20 - 30 seconds between launches) to do that, so not many people are going to see that early on.

zeus
September 13th, 2015, 09:20 AM
Can someone who got the APR Stage 1 tune on a MY15 S3 please verify the filename of the ECU flash. It should be on the bottom of the APR manual that gets emailed to you after getting the tune.

I'm asking because the filename for mine is Audi S3 EURO MY2014 2.0TFSI 8V0906259A S0002 Stage 1 V1.0 [HighOutput] [Single Program], even though it is an MY15 car with a build date of Dec 2014.
Wondering if my tuner flashed the wrong file?

11013mb
September 13th, 2015, 09:48 AM
Can someone who got the APR Stage 1 tune on a MY15 S3 please verify the filename of the ECU flash. It should be on the bottom of the APR manual that gets emailed to you after getting the tune.

I'm asking because the filename for mine is Audi S3 EURO MY2014 2.0TFSI 8V0906259A S0002 Stage 1 V1.0 [HighOutput] [Single Program], even though it is an MY15 car with a build date of Dec 2014.
Wondering if my tuner flashed the wrong file?
Mine says the same....

Sent from my D6653 using Tapatalk

zeus
September 13th, 2015, 11:35 AM
Good to hear. Was worries for a second there heheh

Sent from my LG G3 using Tapatalk

Aussie Audi Guy
September 14th, 2015, 05:08 PM
Can someone who got the APR Stage 1 tune on a MY15 S3 please verify the filename of the ECU flash. It should be on the bottom of the APR manual that gets emailed to you after getting the tune.

I'm asking because the filename for mine is Audi S3 EURO MY2014 2.0TFSI 8V0906259A S0002 Stage 1 V1.0 [HighOutput] [Single Program], even though it is an MY15 car with a build date of Dec 2014.
Wondering if my tuner flashed the wrong file?

Same ECU part number as the 2014 models - so its the correct file!

RS200Z
September 14th, 2015, 07:12 PM
Does APR have a tuning file for same ECU ID but 0003 software revision?

Javbomb
September 15th, 2015, 04:21 PM
Does APR have a tuning file for same ECU ID but 0003 software revision?

I just took my A3 1.8T MY16 in to get APR flashed but alas I also have the 0003 ECU and it didn't work. There was no tune yet. So I don't think yours would work either at this stage.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Javbomb
September 15th, 2015, 04:24 PM
Just to be totally clear, my A3's ECU code is:

8V0906264H-0003

No tune available.

ewok666
September 15th, 2015, 08:10 PM
Just to be totally clear, my A3's ECU code is:

8V0906264H-0003

No tune available.

You could always get a JB1 to tide you over. Under AU$700 shipped including the cable and has quite impressive results and handles fueling as well....which a DTUK does not.

RS200Z
September 16th, 2015, 12:22 AM
Just to be totally clear, my A3's ECU code is:

8V0906264H-0003

No tune available.

Oh ok...mine is a S3. ECU ID is 8V0906259A-0003

omarko
September 25th, 2015, 08:18 AM
so now that this has been out for a while, those that got the stage 1 flash tune - did you leave it on when you took your car for service at your dealer? If yes, did they pick it up in any way ? Did they say anything?

roadrunner
September 25th, 2015, 09:41 AM
so now that this has been out for a while, those that got the stage 1 flash tune - did you leave it on when you took your car for service at your dealer? If yes, did they pick it up in any way ? Did they say anything?
Mine has been to the dealer with the APR loaded for warranty claims for the A/C and sunroof. I have an OBD2 port lock so they can't plug it in. On an earlier visit before I bought the lock I unloaded the APR. They will detect it if they connect your car to the Audi diagnostic unless you unload it. The DSG tune will not be detected, however they may overwrite it if there happened to be an update.

I either do my own servicing or take it to a good independent garage. I only use Audi garages for warranty issues.

andrewjamesdean
September 25th, 2015, 10:22 AM
If I was to get the tune, I'd have it flashed back to stock prior to taking it back to the dealership - for relatively little inconvenience, it's better to be safe than sorry. Also, I note the price of the Stage 1 tune has just gone up by $300

ewok666
September 25th, 2015, 10:26 AM
If I was to get the tune, I'd have it flashed back to stock prior to taking it back to the dealership - for relatively little inconvenience, it's better to be safe than sorry. Also, I note the price of the Stage 1 tune has just gone up by $300

what a bunch of thieves. Not that it wasn't expensive enough before the price hike. Wish they had been able to do mine when I asked them to....

roadrunner
September 25th, 2015, 10:35 AM
If I was to get the tune, I'd have it flashed back to stock prior to taking it back to the dealership - for relatively little inconvenience, it's better to be safe than sorry. Also, I note the price of the Stage 1 tune has just gone up by $300
Yes, due to FX rates. Also, the belief is that if ABT can charge $3600, then why not up APR. The cost of VW & Audi tunes are ludicrous compared to BMW.

ewok666
September 25th, 2015, 10:41 AM
Yes, due to FX rates. Also, the belief is that if ABT can charge $3600, then why not up APR. The cost of VW & Audi tunes are ludicrous compared to BMW.

For something that is US$800 , AU$1700 (even with the crap FX and if it includes GST) was already a PREMIUM price. Same with the TCU upgrade US$700 to AU$1700....WTF? Iknow I'll get to hear the labour cost sob story and how expensive everything is here but for something that's mostly a 15 minute job that's a mighty premium.

Let's hope ABT doesn't increase their prices or APR might go up even more ;-)

pipedwho
September 25th, 2015, 11:26 AM
The APR price hike has definitely caused me to hold off on tuning the car. At $1600 it was already ludicrously high, but at $1900, they're just taking the mickey. Maybe if they at least sweetened the pounding with something extra like cruise control mode switching or APR Mobile compatibility. Or a decent discount on ECU+TCU.

roadrunner
September 25th, 2015, 12:57 PM
The APR price hike has definitely caused me to hold off on tuning the car. At $1600 it was already ludicrously high, but at $1900, they're just taking the mickey. Maybe if they at least sweetened the pounding with something extra like cruise control mode switching or APR Mobile compatibility. Or a decent discount on ECU+TCU.
Perhaps contact them directly they would give a bundle discount.

$2k tune on a $70k car for 20% performance increase makes sense. Although personally I feel anything over $1k is too high, but for me spending $3k on ECU & TCU was very much worth it.

pipedwho
September 25th, 2015, 01:25 PM
Perhaps contact them directly they would give a bundle discount.

$2k tune on a $70k car for 20% performance increase makes sense. Although personally I feel anything over $1k is too high, but for me spending $3k on ECU & TCU was very much worth it.
The price is the same for even the lower model A3 cars. For $2k, I'd be expecting both the ECU & TCU tunes. At $3.5k for the combined set, that is too rich for my blood. The dealers seem to have no real wiggle room as APR Australia (or maybe the overseas parent?) is setting the price.

roadrunner
September 25th, 2015, 02:28 PM
The price is the same for even the lower model A3 cars. For $2k, I'd be expecting both the ECU & TCU tunes. At $3.5k for the combined set, that is too rich for my blood. The dealers seem to have no real wiggle room as APR Australia (or maybe the overseas parent?) is setting the price.
Price is set by APR Australia

ms3
September 25th, 2015, 03:06 PM
I either do my own servicing or take it to a good independent garage. I only use Audi garages for warranty issues.

Sorry for off-topic, but who do you take your car to?

roadrunner
September 25th, 2015, 03:32 PM
Sorry for off-topic, but who do you take your car to?
Well the S3 hasn't needed a scheduled service yet, just done a few DIY oil changes at home.

European Autotech will probably be doing the scheduled services in future. I used to use Advan Performance on my BMW's, but they don't really specialise in Audi's. There are heaps of good Euro car specialists in Sydney with far better techs than dealers have. IMO, good techs don't generally stay at dealerships.

T_S3
September 25th, 2015, 03:51 PM
Well the S3 hasn't needed a scheduled service yet, just done a few DIY oil changes at home.

European Autotech will probably be doing the scheduled services in future. I used to use Advan Performance on my BMW's, but they don't really specialise in Audi's. There are heaps of good Euro car specialists in Sydney with far better techs than dealers have. IMO, good techs don't generally stay at dealerships.

Yes that is ture. Over worked under paid and appreciated.

asgardloki
September 25th, 2015, 04:52 PM
most BMW tunes i have seen only really increase by about 20kw, i.e. the 335i. unsure about the other BMW's though. BMW get you with having to spend 3.5k plus on an exhaust to match to get more horses.


Yes, due to FX rates. Also, the belief is that if ABT can charge $3600, then why not up APR. The cost of VW & Audi tunes are ludicrous compared to BMW.

asgardloki
September 25th, 2015, 04:56 PM
Current price on the APR Stage 1 is $1995

roadrunner
September 25th, 2015, 05:08 PM
most BMW tunes i have seen only really increase by about 20kw, i.e. the 335i. unsure about the other BMW's though. BMW get you with having to spend 3.5k plus on an exhaust to match to get more horses.
No sure what tunes you have seen, but the BMW turbo engines offer huge gains when tuned. 335i should get a 25% increase with a Cobb Access Port for BMW IL6 turbos all with DIY handheld flash for <$1k
COBB Tuning - Accessport (http://www.cobbtuning.com/products/accessport)

I got 295rwkw (240rwkW stock) from a Cobb on my 1M Coupe.

Other flash and piggybacks(JB4) also give huge gains at low cost on BMW's.

asgardloki
September 25th, 2015, 06:13 PM
sorry i meant tunes offered by BMW, not the 3rd party ones.


No sure what tunes you have seen, but the BMW turbo engines offer huge gains when tuned. 335i should get a 25% increase with a Cobb Access Port for BMW IL6 turbos all with DIY handheld flash for <$1k
COBB Tuning - Accessport (http://www.cobbtuning.com/products/accessport)

I got 295rwkw (240rwkW stock) from a Cobb on my 1M Coupe.

Other flash and piggybacks(JB4) also give huge gains at low cost on BMW's.

roadrunner
September 25th, 2015, 06:50 PM
sorry i meant tunes offered by BMW, not the 3rd party ones.
Oh, yes I understand. BMW offered one for the 135i/335i which was only around 20kW. It included a secondary oil cooler hardware too. Doubt you'd even feel 20kW on a 135i though.

mp2811
September 25th, 2015, 06:52 PM
Wow-$1995 for stage 1 tune. I was extremely lucky then I got it at $1400 on sale when first released on the MK7R. Even that was faily steep compared to Revo on sale at same time for $900.

I'm extremley happy with the tune but I think APR will start losing customers if your looking at $3500 for ECU/TCU if can get same combo for revo etc for $2k.

Will no doubt be same for stage 2, APR DP will be at least 2100 whereas can get CTS for under 1100. Obviously even with the $295 tune fee still be $700 better off.

WarwickL
September 25th, 2015, 07:23 PM
Wow. Prices have gone up. When I looked at tunes for the R, they were all around $1k (APR was the usual premium of 1.5x).

roadrunner
September 25th, 2015, 07:36 PM
Wow-$1995 for stage 1 tune. I was extremely lucky then I got it at $1400 on sale when first released on the MK7R. Even that was faily steep compared to Revo on sale at same time for $900.

I'm extremley happy with the tune but I think APR will start losing customers if your looking at $3500 for ECU/TCU if can get same combo for revo etc for $2k.

Will no doubt be same for stage 2, APR DP will be at least 2100 whereas can get CTS for under 1100. Obviously even with the $295 tune fee still be $700 better off.

Agree...$2k is too expensive

Korny
September 26th, 2015, 12:49 AM
Yes, due to FX rates. Also, the belief is that if ABT can charge $3600, then why not up APR. The cost of VW & Audi tunes are ludicrous compared to BMW.

Are ABT now $3600? Not what I paid...


Sent from Korny's iPad using Tapatalk

omarko
September 26th, 2015, 06:56 AM
Mine has been to the dealer with the APR loaded for warranty claims for the A/C and sunroof. I have an OBD2 port lock so they can't plug it in. On an earlier visit before I bought the lock I unloaded the APR. They will detect it if they connect your car to the Audi diagnostic unless you unload it. The DSG tune will not be detected, however they may overwrite it if there happened to be an update.

I either do my own servicing or take it to a good independent garage. I only use Audi garages for warranty issues.

Thanks for that. So how do you unload the tune yourself? What computer hardware do I need to do that?

I agree with the servicing part but I have free servicing for first 45,000kms so wanted to take advantage of that as thats money I can use towards the tune. Although, I do hate dealer service centres with passion.



Well the S3 hasn't needed a scheduled service yet, just done a few DIY oil changes at home.

European Autotech will probably be doing the scheduled services in future. I used to use Advan Performance on my BMW's, but they don't really specialise in Audi's. There are heaps of good Euro car specialists in Sydney with far better techs than dealers have. IMO, good techs don't generally stay at dealerships.

which oil do you use? I am about to do same this weekend (just change oil) and I was going to use this oil LINK CLICK HERE (http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-store/products/Castrol-Edge-Engine-Oil-5W-30-5-Litre.aspx?pid=299206#Recommendations) .

also, can you recommend a good indie Audi mechanic in Sydney and will Audi honer their work for any future warranty issues ? thanks

roadrunner
September 26th, 2015, 07:15 AM
Thanks for that. So how do you unload the tune yourself? What computer hardware do I need to do that?

I agree with the servicing part but I have free servicing for first 45,000kms so wanted to take advantage of that as thats money I can use towards the tune. Although, I do hate dealer service centres with passion.




which oil do you use? I am about to do same this weekend (just change oil) and I was going to use this oil LINK CLICK HERE (http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/online-store/products/Castrol-Edge-Engine-Oil-5W-30-5-Litre.aspx?pid=299206#Recommendations) .

also, can you recommend a good indie Audi mechanic in Sydney and will Audi honer their work for any future warranty issues ? thanks

I can't unload the APR software, however there is a key lockable device that you can snap onto the OBD2 port, so Audi cannot plug in. Not many people know this, but you car has a huge amount of personal information once you BT your phone and also on the GPS. I claim the OBD2 lock is to protect my personal data and against the new method of stealing a car by starting it via the OBD2 port. Bit lame, but true ;)

Speak to your APR agent. loading and unloading for Audi visits isn't a big deal and my agent hasn't charged me thus far. If they did it is probably only $50.

Castrol Edge 5W30 is spot on!

Something I have learnt in life so far is that we tend to spend too much time worrying about 'what-if' and 'how am I going to get around that', when in reality the 'if' and the 'how' never really present themselves :)

crc
September 26th, 2015, 09:21 AM
Quick one on the Castrol Edge 5W30 - unless it is long life 3 it's not officially approved for VW 502 or VW 504. It will be OK as it meets spec but depends on how anal you are for your warranty

Edit this is off topic I will delete it soon. Edit can't delete sorry!

aantss
September 26th, 2015, 09:02 PM
What do you guys reckon about removing hardware for warranty work? I've got apr stage 1 + CAI + GFB Dv. I will obviously get it flashed back to stock but do you think I should remove the hardware also?

Javbomb
September 26th, 2015, 09:29 PM
I am removing my CAI this week while the car goes in but that because its warranty relating possibly to the MAF Sensor.

For a service im not sure I would bother.

aantss
September 26th, 2015, 09:49 PM
It's to get my a/c repaired because it's started to only work intermittently. Just not sure if I should remove the hardware as well as its a bit of a stuff around.

mp2811
October 5th, 2015, 12:32 AM
Below is copy from Audi net of the guy in UK running the stage 2 beta tune, initially had some issues but seems now happy and guessing won't be too long until release.

To me it sounds fantastic and exactly what i'm hoping for, fantastic response with high torque as early as possible.

(His car initially had 388hp on stage 1 and intake)

Spent 8 hours with the Apr guys.
Run after run, they literally dived into the ecu on my car.

They were able to find more torque and make the turbo spool a little quicker (feels quicker than the graph showed) Flatten the torque curve with no dips and improve throttle response.
Peak power is essentially the same as stage 1, however I have a truckload of torque (400ftlb) from 2000rpmish and it feels like a god damn rocket, very happy http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/styles/default/xenforo/clear.png
In case you were wondering I had around 370ftlb to start with.

Expect a new revision of stage 2 at some point this year.
Oh and 410ftlb causes surge on the turbo so don't expect a higher torque map on the stock turbo!

I also learnt that the stock intercooler lowers peak power as they can't increase boost at high rpms..... So patiently waiting for a decent intercooler http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/styles/default/xenforo/clear.png

domino_z
October 5th, 2015, 12:00 PM
I can't unload the APR software, however there is a key lockable device that you can snap onto the OBD2 port, so Audi cannot plug in. Not many people know this, but you car has a huge amount of personal information once you BT your phone and also on the GPS. I claim the OBD2 lock is to protect my personal data and against the new method of stealing a car by starting it via the OBD2 port. Bit lame, but true ;)

Speak to your APR agent. loading and unloading for Audi visits isn't a big deal and my agent hasn't charged me thus far. If they did it is probably only $50.

Castrol Edge 5W30 is spot on!

Something I have learnt in life so far is that we tend to spend too much time worrying about 'what-if' and 'how am I going to get around that', when in reality the 'if' and the 'how' never really present themselves :)

ill use excuse i don't want my armytrix obd module removed

Javbomb
October 5th, 2015, 12:36 PM
What do you guys reckon about removing hardware for warranty work? I've got apr stage 1 + CAI + GFB Dv. I will obviously get it flashed back to stock but do you think I should remove the hardware also?

Just an update on this, I had my car in at Audi Five Dock Service Department last week for a faulty O2 sensor. I had removed the CAI for it just to be sure.

I asked them very specific questions regarding the mandatory DISS reporting they have to do.

They said to me that they (Five Dock) only do the cumpolsory automated scan as part of diagnostics with ANY car that goes in there. They dont do that, they dont get paid. However, I quizzed them on mods, and they said aside from ECU tuning they do not flag manually anything on the car, be it, Downpipes, CAI's, DV's, Exhausts and the like. This is obviously their particular stance on the matter, some places may be different. They specifically said this will not affect warranty, they dont mind those mods.

Obviously they stated they will not warrant the actual aftermarket parts, but I am not worried if something in my engine fails and I have parts that are aftermarket installed as they said there isnt really anyhing other than a flash tune which may bring about a part failure as a result of an aftermarket part as the ECU's are very smart and will for the most part adapt to them, its only really flash tuning which adds tons of extra demand and power to the system for which it wasnt designed. I think the exception to this rule may be things like a turbo upgrade. But I would never do that.

This was a group discussion with the service manager in particular and another 3 service department heads present. So I will be leaving my CAI, Turbo Muffler Delete and other non flashed mods present when I take my car in.

Any tunes though I will definitely remove before hand.

This is good for me as I have the Audi Service package for the first 45k worth of serices already paid for.

aantss
October 5th, 2015, 08:21 PM
Just an update on this, I had my car in at Audi Five Dock Service Department last week for a faulty O2 sensor. I had removed the CAI for it just to be sure.

I asked them very specific questions regarding the mandatory DISS reporting they have to do.

They said to me that they (Five Dock) only do the cumpolsory automated scan as part of diagnostics with ANY car that goes in there. They dont do that, they dont get paid. However, I quizzed them on mods, and they said aside from ECU tuning they do not flag manually anything on the car, be it, Downpipes, CAI's, DV's, Exhausts and the like. This is obviously their particular stance on the matter, some places may be different. They specifically said this will not affect warranty, they dont mind those mods.

Obviously they stated they will not warrant the actual aftermarket parts, but I am not worried if something in my engine fails and I have parts that are aftermarket installed as they said there isnt really anyhing other than a flash tune which may bring about a part failure as a result of an aftermarket part as the ECU's are very smart and will for the most part adapt to them, its only really flash tuning which adds tons of extra demand and power to the system for which it wasnt designed. I think the exception to this rule may be things like a turbo upgrade. But I would never do that.

This was a group discussion with the service manager in particular and another 3 service department heads present. So I will be leaving my CAI, Turbo Muffler Delete and other non flashed mods present when I take my car in.

Any tunes though I will definitely remove before hand.

This is good for me as I have the Audi Service package for the first 45k worth of serices already paid for.


Excellent! Thank you very much for that, really appreciate the info!

Gooniebomb
November 8th, 2015, 09:18 AM
Just an update on this, I had my car in at Audi Five Dock Service Department last week for a faulty O2 sensor. I had removed the CAI for it just to be sure.

I asked them very specific questions regarding the mandatory DISS reporting they have to do.

They said to me that they (Five Dock) only do the cumpolsory automated scan as part of diagnostics with ANY car that goes in there. They dont do that, they dont get paid. However, I quizzed them on mods, and they said aside from ECU tuning they do not flag manually anything on the car, be it, Downpipes, CAI's, DV's, Exhausts and the like. This is obviously their particular stance on the matter, some places may be different. They specifically said this will not affect warranty, they dont mind those mods.

Obviously they stated they will not warrant the actual aftermarket parts, but I am not worried if something in my engine fails and I have parts that are aftermarket installed as they said there isnt really anyhing other than a flash tune which may bring about a part failure as a result of an aftermarket part as the ECU's are very smart and will for the most part adapt to them, its only really flash tuning which adds tons of extra demand and power to the system for which it wasnt designed. I think the exception to this rule may be things like a turbo upgrade. But I would never do that.

This was a group discussion with the service manager in particular and another 3 service department heads present. So I will be leaving my CAI, Turbo Muffler Delete and other non flashed mods present when I take my car in.

Any tunes though I will definitely remove before hand.

This is good for me as I have the Audi Service package for the first 45k worth of serices already paid for.

But if you remove your tune back to stock, can't they detect that you have mucked around in there already? Or is it just a case of, need a service, flash back to stock, leave hardware mods on and they are ok with it? As long as it's a stock ecu according to their scan?
That's awesome news btw!


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Javbomb
November 8th, 2015, 10:58 AM
But if you remove your tune back to stock, can't they detect that you have mucked around in there already? Or is it just a case of, need a service, flash back to stock, leave hardware mods on and they are ok with it? As long as it's a stock ecu according to their scan?
That's awesome news btw!

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That is my understanding of it. APR claim (though they dont guarantee) that the ECU is completely stock if they flash it back. If your other gear in the car throws codes though I am not sure how happy Audi would be about that, but at most they would advise you against the mods due to that fact. But they should still not flag you for anything. At least my service center said as much. They only allow the scan tool to auto diagnose the car. They wont manually go in and enter your mods and send it back to germany. Only the auto scan does that.

Now, APR's flashing methods are pretty sound and make sense to me from a technical standpoint, as I understand computers very well. Think of it this way. When they flash your car they backup the entire 'disk' of the ECU. This is the same as cloning a Windows drive on your PC. Windows or your PC has no way of knowing it is a cloned drive and the MD5 hash codes on the software remain in tact as it is a cloned copy, not modified in any way. Then APR does the tune by writing totally new software on your ECU replacing everything.

Once you go back to stock they take your ECU backup and completely rewrite the entire ECU with your old software. Once that is done the software in the ECU would not know any different. This should be invisible to the scan tools as being tampered with as the MD5 Hash will be in tact.

HOWEVER. If Audi were to revise the scanning procedure and look for chunks of missing data, such as why the ECU was not logging anything at all for the past year you had the flash; there would be a gap of data as the software would not have been active on the car as APR's software was there instead, and when they reflash to stock all the data from the past year should, in theory, be missing from the logs. Then you would be in trouble. But again, this amounts to nothing but missing data. It doesn't really prove anything.

WarwickL
November 8th, 2015, 11:04 AM
Has been mentioned elsewhere by tuners, each flash is time stamped and stored in protected area. Some suggest other data is stored as well. Point being if there is a warranty issue Audi have tools to discover modifications to the ECU. I've never been concerned about our R as I know it has a good safety margin. I don't believe the S3 has that same safety margin

Javbomb
November 8th, 2015, 11:08 AM
Has been mentioned elsewhere by tuners, each flash is time stamped and stored in protected area. Some suggest other data is stored as well. Point being if there is a warranty issue Audi have tools to discover modifications to the ECU. I've never been concerned about our R as I know it has a good safety margin. I don't believe the S3 has that same safety margin

It is also my understanding that the ECU would need to be sent to Germany to be scanned deeply. Which only becomes an issue in terms of serious warranty claims such as blown engines.

Myself, I am not concerned about that.

Javbomb
November 8th, 2015, 11:09 AM
Personally... I just want them to crack the MY16 ECU's already! I have been waiting for a while now. I really want to tune my car! They have even raised the bloody price in the meantime. Sucks.

rprodrive
November 8th, 2015, 11:18 AM
However, I quizzed them on mods, and they said aside from ECU tuning they do not flag manually anything on the car, be it, Downpipes, CAI's, DV's, Exhausts and the like. This is obviously their particular stance on the matter, some places may be different. They specifically said this will not affect warranty, they dont mind those mods.


Unfortunately, if you ask them for what they said in writing - they will back track at 100 miles an hour. All those modifications can be used against you at warranty time (depending on the issue) when it suits Audi and they know it.

Javbomb
November 8th, 2015, 11:20 AM
Unfortunately, if you ask them for what they said in writing - they will back track at 100 miles an hour. All those modifications can be used against you at warranty time (depending on the issue) when it suits Audi and they know it.

Of course. There are loopholes and exit strategies for all major companies. Nothing is certain.

Personally I am not worries about it at all.

I will tune my car and get mods. And enjoy the benefits of doing so. I will reflash to stock for services... And when I am going to sell my car I will revert everything back to stock and do so. Then upgrade to 'god willing' an RS3 Sedan if it ever sees light of day :woah2:

malaz44
November 15th, 2015, 05:39 PM
Sorry to kind of change the conversation, But ive been on the apr website and ive seen how you change the programs using the indicator stalk? How do you know which settings what and How do you put it back to standard settings?
Thanks

G-Ride
November 15th, 2015, 07:56 PM
Sorry to kind of change the conversation, But ive been on the apr website and ive seen how you change the programs using the indicator stalk? How do you know which settings what and How do you put it back to standard settings?
Thanks

The CEL indicator follows a sequence, 1 flash per second, 2 flashs per second for each respective program 1, 2, 3, 4 etc.
Program 1 in the A4 used to be Stock, Program 2 was Stage 1+, then you might have valet etc. You'd just write down on a bit of card which program is in which position - you'd soon get used to what is where. It's a pretty neat system thats for sure.

EMCS instructions are here

https://www.goapr.com/support/dpp_emcs_instructions.pdf

fung9420
November 19th, 2015, 04:34 PM
S3 8v stage 1 done few months ago all fine. Doing a track day tomorrow. Is stage 1 tune already compatible to 108ron/104oct fuel? On the apr website, 104oct putting out 297kw. Almost 15kw different..
Where can I actually get 104oct fuel in Adelaide?


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roadrunner
November 19th, 2015, 09:42 PM
S3 8v stage 1 done few months ago all fine. Doing a track day tomorrow. Is stage 1 tune already compatible to 108ron/104oct fuel? On the apr website, 104oct putting out 297kw. Almost 15kw different..
Where can I actually get 104oct fuel in Adelaide?


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The stage 1 is for 98RON. I don't believe APR offer any other fuel grade option in Oz. You won't need any more power for the track, there is plenty.

sammo
November 20th, 2015, 01:48 PM
How many kms are people waiting before getting the tune?

roadrunner
November 20th, 2015, 06:20 PM
Mine went in at 1000km. Just be sensible as to oil temps etc and will be fine.

sammo
November 20th, 2015, 07:29 PM
Yep always. About to sell my Mk6 GTI with stage 2. Always warmed up, oil changed twice a year but I'm sure the offers will be lower due to being modded. Shame, it's a beautiful example, low kms, etc. But I digress...

Joecool
November 20th, 2015, 09:54 PM
Yep always. About to sell my Mk6 GTI with stage 2. Always warmed up, oil changed twice a year but I'm sure the offers will be lower due to being modded. Shame, it's a beautiful example, low kms, etc. But I digress...

Seriously? You get less money for a modded car with better performance? Wow!

fung9420
November 20th, 2015, 10:45 PM
that depends on who's buying really.

Javbomb
November 22nd, 2015, 10:55 AM
Then unmod the car and sell the parts as separates??


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sammo
November 22nd, 2015, 12:08 PM
I won't get much for a 5 year old exhaust and intake. Can't sell a tune, plus more money to remove and fit the factory exhaust.

Javbomb
November 25th, 2015, 01:36 PM
Urgh. Seriously. Will they crack the damn MY16 ECU's already. The wait is killing me. I am dying to go right to Stage 2 and skip Stage 1.

Meanwhile APR is releasing all these ridiculous turbo upgrades which are useless to us A3 owners... And no downpipes until next year I hear.

Do we even have any downpipe options in Australia? Seriosuly? I have asked this question before, but both reccomendations were vague as to weather or not they work on our cars...

gbernard
November 25th, 2015, 01:48 PM
would it be fair to say, that tuners might make the assumption the majority of A3 owners have a lower desire to performance mod their cars, than S3 owners ?

Remarcabull
November 25th, 2015, 02:23 PM
Urgh. Seriously. Will they crack the damn MY16 ECU's already. The wait is killing me. I am dying to go right to Stage 2 and skip Stage 1.

Meanwhile APR is releasing all these ridiculous turbo upgrades which are useless to us A3 owners... And no downpipes until next year I hear.

Do we even have any downpipe options in Australia? Seriosuly? I have asked this question before, but both reccomendations were vague as to weather or not they work on our cars...

There are plenty of downpipe options that run on stock tune, also intercooler upgrades are in the same vote.

Javbomb
November 25th, 2015, 02:33 PM
There are plenty of downpipe options here in AU that run on stock tune, also intercooler upgrades are in the same vote.

Care to share? I hang on these forums a fair bit and dont know definitively of any that actually fit RHD cars.

Bull-X not compatible. AWE not compatible. USP Dont think so. CTS Not sure. Unitronic Not sure. Milltek Too expensive.

I am not looking for one to use with the stock tune though, dont know if that req's a different downpipe. Still looking for catted high flow though. Accepted I will have to wait at least until my ECU is cracked before installing one.

sammo
November 26th, 2015, 07:35 AM
The BCS downpipe suits and would be a little cheaper ex VAT.

Performance Exhaust Systems by BCS - Stainless Steel Exhausts by BCS - DOWNPIPE WITH CAT AND LINK PIPE TO FIT OEM - Powervalve Sport System (http://www.powervalve.co.uk/products/vw/golf/mk7/golf-mk7-r-2014/vw187-downpipe-with-200-cell-motorsport-cat-and-link-pipe-to-fit-oem-system-with-system-options-powervalve-sport-system.html)

I was at Fast Stuff yesterday and Dean said the MY16 tune itself wasn't the problem, it's the delivery method. Until they crack Audi's new encryption method, the ECU can be removed and flashed on a bench which involves soldering some pins temporarily. Too expensive to be a viable option.

Here's a review of the BCS downpipe if you haven't seen it.

B.C.S downpipe + apr remap | Audi-Sport.net (http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/b-c-s-downpipe-apr-remap.243063/)

Javbomb
November 26th, 2015, 09:13 AM
The BCS downpipe suits and would be a little cheaper ex VAT.

Performance Exhaust Systems by BCS - Stainless Steel Exhausts by BCS - DOWNPIPE WITH CAT AND LINK PIPE TO FIT OEM - Powervalve Sport System (http://www.powervalve.co.uk/products/vw/golf/mk7/golf-mk7-r-2014/vw187-downpipe-with-200-cell-motorsport-cat-and-link-pipe-to-fit-oem-system-with-system-options-powervalve-sport-system.html)

I was at Fast Stuff yesterday and Dean said the MY16 tune itself wasn't the problem, it's the delivery method. Until they crack Audi's new encryption method, the ECU can be removed and flashed on a bench which involves soldering some pins temporarily. Too expensive to be a viable option.

Here's a review of the BCS downpipe if you haven't seen it.

B.C.S downpipe + apr remap | Audi-Sport.net (http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/b-c-s-downpipe-apr-remap.243063/)

Yeah cool I heard of that downpipe, dominoz had one, not sure if he ever installed it though. I guess what I dont know is if that will fit my 1.8TFSI... thats the $64,000 question nobody seems to know definitively. I think it would, I am guessing Quattro is the deciding factor here. As the pipe has to wrap around the same drive shaft on both the S3 and A3.

By the time I import that BCS downpipe though, its instantly in APR downpipe territory, so may as well just sit on my hands, wait, and get the APR pipe and the free upgrade to Stage 2 when it hits...

Oh wells. all good.

And yeah, I did say crack ECU's... well aware of the issue. Just feel like if they tried hard enough they could get it sorted sooner rather than later, but they don't seem to be doing much. They could have cracked it in a week if they deemed it important enough.

And what the hell is the delay with the APR downpipe? Don't they want peoples money? Why release stage 3 crap when they don't even have a an actual stage 2 complete solution yet? Makes NO sense to me. Really.

ewok666
November 26th, 2015, 10:56 AM
Maybe because the stage 2 gains aren't enough compared to stage 1?

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Javbomb
November 26th, 2015, 11:29 AM
Maybe because the stage 2 gains aren't enough compared to stage 1?

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Considering they have already created a Stage 2 tune for my engine long ago, they must have used a downpipe to create that tune. I suppose it was their FWD downpipe.

Right now I would be happy with Stage 1 haha. Then I can bitch about Stage 2.

ewok666
November 26th, 2015, 12:13 PM
Considering they have already created a Stage 2 tune for my engine long ago, they must have used a downpipe to create that tune. I suppose it was their FWD downpipe.

Right now I would be happy with Stage 1 haha. Then I can bitch about Stage 2.

Do what I and some others did: Get a JB1, it's good, well supported and cheap. It will tide you over until the ECU can be flashed and if your turbo blows you just unplug it and return the car to the dealer. I've had it for almost 10,000km and once the APR tune is out and the turbo is still going strong I'll reconsider.....although I'm tempted to leave it in and get the stage 3 when it's out.

Javbomb
November 26th, 2015, 12:19 PM
Do what I and some others did: Get a JB1, it's good, well supported and cheap. It will tide you over until the ECU can be flashed and if your turbo blows you just unplug it and return the car to the dealer. I've had it for almost 10,000km and once the APR tune is out and the turbo is still going strong I'll reconsider.....although I'm tempted to leave it in and get the stage 3 when it's out.

You have an S3 yeah?

Don't think the JB1 gains are that good for my car, ill look into it though. Good thing is I could just sell it down the track.


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ewok666
November 26th, 2015, 01:17 PM
You have an S3 yeah?

Don't think the JB1 gains are that good for my car, ill look into it though. Good thing is I could just sell it down the track.


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The numbers they quote are quite conservative but I wouldn't want to miss it on my S3. You can run it in a pass through map and the car feels as sluggish as it came from the dealer ;-)

Javbomb
December 1st, 2015, 12:09 PM
According to APR's Facebook page they are (re)launching the MQB 2015-2016 Stage 1 tunes for our cars with locked ECU's 'Any Day Now'...

They are running a 10% off sale until the end of the year, and they have assured us that the tunes will be available before the sale is over.

What I am not sure on is weather or not Australia will be taking part in APR's sale. 10% off more or less takes it back to pre-price hike rates which would be good.

Anyone from APR Australia want to chime in and confirm??

ewok666
December 1st, 2015, 01:46 PM
According to APR's Facebook page they are (re)launching the MQB 2015-2016 Stage 1 tunes for our cars with locked ECU's 'Any Day Now'...

They are running a 10% off sale until the end of the year, and they have assured us that the tunes will be available before the sale is over.

What I am not sure on is weather or not Australia will be taking part in APR's sale. 10% off more or less takes it back to pre-price hike rates which would be good.

Anyone from APR Australia want to chime in and confirm??

They haven't participated in the sales in the past as far as I know and had some excuse for it. I think it was because they stuck to the very competitive $1700 price tag of the tune instead of upping the price due to the sliding dollar.

pipedwho
December 1st, 2015, 02:52 PM
They haven't participated in the sales in the past as far as I know and had some excuse for it. I think it was because they stuck to the very competitive $1700 price tag of the tune instead of upping the price due to the sliding dollar.
Didn't they hike +20% a few month ago. I'd love to see a sale that went back to the old price for a while.

Actually, I'd like to see the cruise control thing with a bunch of selectable programs along with the mobile phone interface that they have for the older cars. I'm sure it's coming, but I don't want to have to pay again just to be able to go back to stock or a 91/95 RON program.

Javbomb
December 1st, 2015, 02:59 PM
Didn't they hike +20% a few month ago. I'd love to see a sale that went back to the old price for a while.

Actually, I'd like to see the cruise control thing with a bunch of selectable programs along with the mobile phone interface that they have for the older cars. I'm sure it's coming, but I don't want to have to pay again just to be able to go back to stock or a 91/95 RON program.

According to their Instagram, they are working on that very thing.

ewok666
December 2nd, 2015, 04:16 PM
Looks like they DO have a 10% sale until the 24th of this month!

A.U.D.I.
December 2nd, 2015, 06:10 PM
Looks like they DO have a 10% sale until the 24th of this month!
24267

Javbomb
December 2nd, 2015, 07:39 PM
24267

Wicked.

Im keeping an eye on this thread, seems to be the most up to date and immediate info regarding the tunes re-release. I expect that by next week I will be able to go and get it done.

2015/2016 Locked ECU's how much longer?? - Page 5 - GOLFMK7 - VW GTI MKVII Forum / VW Golf R Forum / VW Golf MKVII Forum (http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14238&page=5)

WarwickL
December 2nd, 2015, 07:59 PM
Will this be a re re release like the TCU tune ?

roadrunner
December 2nd, 2015, 08:59 PM
Just did another track-day in the S3 and the APR ECU/TCU combo performed faultlessly :)

Highly recommend. Just need to go back to agent and disable the kick-down in M as a bit annoying on track.

Javbomb
December 2nd, 2015, 09:18 PM
Will this be a re re release like the TCU tune ?

My understanding is its the same as always just that they have cracked the newer ECU encryption which was preventing the flash.


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sammo
December 2nd, 2015, 09:57 PM
Didn't MY16 deliver 210kw which means a slightly different tune?

aantss
December 3rd, 2015, 10:48 AM
Didn't MY16 deliver 210kw which means a slightly different tune?

MY15 was 210kw also. Makes no difference, same hardware. They just load the new software on. Same same.

Rick -S3
December 3rd, 2015, 11:09 AM
I have just looked on their website and the pricing has gone up!!!

ECU tune is now $2000 and TCU tune is $1700!!

Ok I was keen to do something this month with 10% off but not at these inflated prices!!

Javbomb
December 3rd, 2015, 11:13 AM
Some S3's are actually 221kw.

I think that it has something to do with fuel quality though. And maybe unrelated but some locations are flagged by Audi as 'Hot' or 'Cold' climates. I would imagine the hot climates don't achieve full potential.

I might look in to importing APR's intercooler though. I have a strong feeling the AU pricing is going to be ridiculous. That seems to drastically reduce the turbo's intake temps and in turn allows the car to achieve higher power as its not heat saturated which you can damn well bet is going to happen during summer in Australia. So that's a worthy bolt on I think. If you have ever driven your car at midnight on a cold night and felt like it had more power or 'loved' the cold then thats what you could expect with the intercooler upgrade. I know my old 2010 GSXR-600 used to feel like it was supercharged in the cold.

Combine that with a downpipe, and a stage II tune and you can colour me done with this car until I can upgrade to the facelift S3, or RS3 Sedan if there ever is a thing.

pipedwho
December 3rd, 2015, 11:55 AM
Are they actually trying on the old 'bump it up 10% so they can give you a 10% discount' trick?

Remarcabull
December 3rd, 2015, 02:38 PM
Some S3's are actually 221kw.

I think that it has something to do with fuel quality though. And maybe unrelated but some locations are flagged by Audi as 'Hot' or 'Cold' climates. I would imagine the hot climates don't achieve full potential.

I might look in to importing APR's intercooler though. I have a strong feeling the AU pricing is going to be ridiculous. That seems to drastically reduce the turbo's intake temps and in turn allows the car to achieve higher power as its not heat saturated which you can damn well bet is going to happen during summer in Australia. So that's a worthy bolt on I think. If you have ever driven your car at midnight on a cold night and felt like it had more power or 'loved' the cold then thats what you could expect with the intercooler upgrade. I know my old 2010 GSXR-600 used to feel like it was supercharged in the cold.

Combine that with a downpipe, and a stage II tune and you can colour me done with this car until I can upgrade to the facelift S3, or RS3 Sedan if there ever is a thing.

Its far cheaper importing APR stuff from overseas and is what ive done though one of my mates in the past, he had some connections to distributors over there. Only thing you have to resort to local is the tune unfortunately.

ewok666
December 3rd, 2015, 03:15 PM
Some S3's are actually 221kw.

I think that it has something to do with fuel quality though. And maybe unrelated but some locations are flagged by Audi as 'Hot' or 'Cold' climates. I would imagine the hot climates don't achieve full potential.

It's really just a different map and I very much doubt it's because of the heat. MUCH more likely to push it below the 7.0l/100km mark and avoid LCT! Either way, once the APR tune is on they should all be the same anyway. Unlike piggy back which modifies behaviour of the stock map this is a NEW map that does not rely on the old.....at least that's my understanding. There were some interesting comment on another forum re different version of the Golf GTI: Essentially the new tune just held boost a little longer a voila, you got an extra 10kw ;-)

Javbomb
December 3rd, 2015, 03:48 PM
It's really just a different map and I very much doubt it's because of the heat. MUCH more likely to push it below the 7.0l/100km mark and avoid LCT! Either way, once the APR tune is on they should all be the same anyway. Unlike piggy back which modifies behaviour of the stock map this is a NEW map that does not rely on the old.....at least that's my understanding. There were some interesting comment on another forum re different version of the Golf GTI: Essentially the new tune just held boost a little longer a voila, you got an extra 10kw ;-)

The hotter countries is an actual thing I have seen it mentioned a few times.

Here is an article also quoting it, albeit an old article. There is now a 221kw S3 in Australia as far as I'm aware:

"Audi spokesman Shaun Cleary says that the car will have 15kW less than European models.“There will be a lower power output just for hot weather countries,” he says.

“The power output will be 206kW while the European car has 221kW."

But Cleary says the performance has not been blunted as the car will still offer a peak torque figure of 380Nm."

Audi S3 to Lose Power When Sold in Australia (http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/audis-hot-hatch-detuned-for-australia-20130710-2ppa3.html)

You are right though. However I still think the reasoning goes back to something akin to what I said about the intercooler. Higher boost, with higher ambient temps in hotter countries would put undue heat stress on the turbo, so I guess they tuned out the 15kw in the hopes that the lower boost would not let the turbo reach certain temps... valid concept if you ask me.

Are you saying if a car is over 7.0l/100km it attracts some sort of tax? I was not aware of that.

pipedwho
December 3rd, 2015, 04:28 PM
I really don't get all these 'hot/cold country' temperature variations. Surely the ECU can read the inlet air / turbo / oil / etc temperatures and make a decision to limit various engine parameters to avoid undue stress on the engine. What happens if I'm out driving through Alice Springs when the temperature is peaking at 50degC? I assume the ECU turns things down so I don't end up stranded 2 hours from civilisation.

How does an APR tune affect that aspect of the ECU? I hope it does the same and starts pulling back to avoid engine stress/damage in the excessive ambient temperatures of that environment.

roadrunner
December 3rd, 2015, 08:53 PM
My S3 with APR never went over 114 degrees oil temp at the track this week and cools back to 100 within a couple of minutes of cool-down lap. 221kW hot temps is BS, many parts of Europe get into the 40's.

sammo
December 3rd, 2015, 11:54 PM
Whereas Australia is known to import low quality fuel while exporting some of the finest sweet crude oil to the rest of the world (read: profits). Oil temp is a minor consideration compared to the detrimental effects of **** fuel.

A.U.D.I.
December 4th, 2015, 07:36 AM
My S3 with APR never went over 114 degrees oil temp at the track this week and cools back to 100 within a couple of minutes of cool-down lap. 221kW hot temps is BS, many parts of Europe get into the 40's.

Yup. Just ask Audi in Tucson, Arizona. Average summer (June) temperature there of 100'F (40C) with highs around 117'F. Does not stop Audi USA selling the S3 @ a stated output of 221kW

crc
December 4th, 2015, 08:38 AM
They say the drop from 221kW to 210kW is for heat, fuel quality, etc. I think it's more economics. The LCT threshold is raised to $75k for cars that achieve a 7.0L/100km or less combined fuel economy. The S3 just *happens* to come in at 6.9/7.0 (http://www.audi.com.au/etc/medialib/ngw/au/a3_spec_guides.Par.0014.File.pdf). In the UK with the 221kW tune, 19s & manual that goes up to 7.1L, which would attract the 33% tax here.

ewok666
December 4th, 2015, 09:22 AM
My S3 with APR never went over 114 degrees oil temp at the track this week and cools back to 100 within a couple of minutes of cool-down lap. 221kW hot temps is BS, many parts of Europe get into the 40's.

A bit off topic but how do you find the daily driving improvement with the DSG tune?

ewok666
December 4th, 2015, 09:36 AM
Does anyone know how the upgrade path works with APR? I.e. if I get the Stage 1 tune now (which is really just software and minimal labour) and I get a stage 3 later on, do they credit the cost of the Stage 1 towards the stage 3?

Aussie Audi Guy
December 7th, 2015, 03:31 PM
Are they actually trying on the old 'bump it up 10% so they can give you a 10% discount' trick?

No sorry - the only price rise was purely because of the exchange rate. We actually held the prices (in hindsight) a little too long, as I don't think anyone predicted the 30% drop in the dollar. The decision was made for one single price rise, instead of 3 or 4 small price rises.

The pricing structure has not changed much since the introduction of Direct Port Programming back in 2003. In 2005 (when our dollar was at ~ 70 cents US) a MK5 GTI software upgrade was $1995. It was reduced to $1495 when the dollar was good. Then up in 2009, then down in 2011. Now up in 2015.

People only seem to comment on the price rises, very few people here commented on the $500 drop 4 years ago......

Other good news is the MY16 cars have now started flashing in the US, so that should filter down to Australia very, very shortly.

pipedwho
December 7th, 2015, 03:46 PM
While you're here, is there any news on when they're likely to have the cruise control / mobile map selection versions available?

Aussie Audi Guy
December 7th, 2015, 03:50 PM
While you're here, is there any news on when they're likely to have the cruise control / mobile map selection versions available?

I just had one of the APR engineers here for a week. There is progress on that project, but no ETA.

Unfortunately there is so much involved in these electrical engineering projects, they can't give out ETA's.

ewok666
December 7th, 2015, 10:54 PM
No sorry - the only price rise was purely because of the exchange rate. We actually held the prices (in hindsight) a little too long, as I don't think anyone predicted the 30% drop in the dollar. The decision was made for one single price rise, instead of 3 or 4 small price rises.



No offense but I think everyone understands the exchange rate situation. It's the inflated price of the product itself that is confusing. How is USD700 vs AUD2000 justified for something that does not require much labour to install and does not need to be shipped here or stored in a warehouse?

jnrdavo
December 8th, 2015, 06:27 AM
No offense but I think everyone understands the exchange rate situation. It's the inflated price of the product itself that is confusing. How is USD700 vs AUD2000 justified for something that does not require much labour to install and does not need to be shipped here or stored in a warehouse?

This has been done to death guys... read the many other posts on this forum on this exact same topic. Like anything in this World, if you don't like the price, don't buy it, it's your choice.

roadrunner
December 8th, 2015, 10:04 AM
This has been done to death guys... read the many other posts on this forum on this exact same topic. Like anything in this World, if you don't like the price, don't buy it, it's your choice.

+1
It isn't expensive if you think of the performance gains. I bet if the Audi dealer offered us a 20% power increase as an options tick box we'd pay a lot more. The APR tunes transform the S3. As I have said after driving an RS3 on 2 occasions there is nothing in it and my tuned S3's transmission behaves better.

sammo
December 8th, 2015, 11:16 AM
I bet if the Audi dealer offered us a 20% power increase as an options tick box we'd pay a lot more.

I'd happily pay Audi 2k for all of that extra performance in my new S3 because they'd be obliged to provide a factory warranty.

Warranty aside, if Audi then offered the same tune to US customers for $700, we'd have the same argument.

Javbomb
December 8th, 2015, 06:03 PM
This has been done to death guys... read the many other posts on this forum on this exact same topic. Like anything in this World, if you don't like the price, don't buy it, it's your choice.

I know when we are talking about the APR tune you are probably right, but that attitude from the masses is exactly why Australia has a serious price gouging problem as a whole. We may be across the pond but price hikes in this country used to cite long haul shipping as the factor for the higher prices. But since we are talking about data here then it bares no excuse. The same can be said for any and all computer software and digital goods. When you look into it, the fact that Aussies pay some of the highest prices for any kinds of goods in the 1st world along with our stupid high rental rates and our stupid high energy rates then we have a real problem here.

So, I don't accept the frame of mind that if you don't like it don't buy it... Sometimes people have to stand up and be heard, I know they are a forum sponsor, we are not trashing them, its merely a conversation raising some concerns is all... Completely in line if you ask me. Forums are a place for opinions weather or not you agree with them are they not?

Having said all that, I plan to take advantage of the sale the second the MY16 tunes are released and get me some APR Stage 1 action. Yes I think its totally worth it. But just like everything else, it puts a frown on my face when I see people in the US complaining about their prices being expensive when we over here pay more than double.

11013mb
December 8th, 2015, 06:07 PM
Getting TCU tune done soon. Price changes doesnt bother me. Its only 10% , i rort more from the ato lol


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Javbomb
December 8th, 2015, 06:26 PM
Tune is out tomorrow according to Arin@APR!

"You guys should stay tuned for a nice announcement tomorrow morning."

2015/2016 Locked ECU's how much longer?? - Page 8 - GOLFMK7 - VW GTI MKVII Forum / VW Golf R Forum / VW Golf MKVII Forum
(http://www.golfmk7.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14238&page=8)
24307

Javbomb
December 8th, 2015, 10:04 PM
Hells yeah! Good to go. I am going to try and get the tune done first thing in the morning... Ill report back my thoughts if I manage to get it done. Psyched!

http://goapr.com.au/

24312

sammo
December 9th, 2015, 11:19 AM
I can confirm Melbourne dealers are now offering the MY16 tune with the 10% discount until xmas.

Only 1100km on the clock and yet to convince wifey... :roll:

Javbomb
December 9th, 2015, 12:39 PM
Well, the elusive Stage 1 tune escapes me yet again. I was at a dealer at 9am. After 30 minutes of the system not recognising my ECU im thinking due to server overload we finally got in, entered my customer info and low and behold my ECU has no tune available for it.

Dealer put in a call to APR and they have to send off my ECU details so they can make a tune for it as they haven't come across one yet in a MY16 car.

Great White Buffalo
Great White Buffalo
Great White Buffalo

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/08/c6e3d53cd32eed6219aed72052911d3d.jpg


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ewok666
December 9th, 2015, 01:06 PM
Well, the elusive Stage 1 tune escapes me yet again. I was at a dealer at 9am. After 30 minutes of the system not recognising my ECU im thinking due to server overload we finally got in, entered my customer info and low and behold my ECU has no tune available for it.

Sorry man....I remember what it was like when I rocked up with my S3 in July....first S3 they had they coudn't tune.

Alister
December 9th, 2015, 01:17 PM
Well, the elusive Stage 1 tune escapes me yet again. I was at a dealer at 9am. After 30 minutes of the system not recognising my ECU im thinking due to server overload we finally got in, entered my customer info and low and behold my ECU has no tune available for it.

In their defence, they probably don't see a lot of 8V A3 1.8Ts in for Stage 1 flashes. There is also a number of different ECU part number variations so that also complicates things somewhat.

roadrunner
December 9th, 2015, 01:17 PM
Well, the elusive Stage 1 tune escapes me yet again. I was at a dealer at 9am. After 30 minutes of the system not recognising my ECU im thinking due to server overload we finally got in, entered my customer info and low and behold my ECU has no tune available for it.

Dealer put in a call to APR and they have to send off my ECU details so they can make a tune for it as they haven't come across one yet in a MY16 car.


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Sucks to be an early adopter ... it took 3 goes to get my TCU tune. The early adopters help build up the APR tune database.

G-Ride
December 9th, 2015, 02:22 PM
I can confirm Melbourne dealers are now offering the MY16 tune with the 10% discount until xmas.

Only 1100km on the clock and yet to convince wifey... :roll:

You haven't learned the value of a play money bank account on the side? No convincing required - you just get it done and play dumb.

sammo
December 9th, 2015, 02:55 PM
You haven't learned the value of a play money bank account on the side? No convincing required - you just get it done and play dumb.

If only I was paid in cash and not straight into our offset account.

G-Ride
December 9th, 2015, 03:24 PM
If only I was paid in cash and not straight into our offset account.
Ahhh...I can see that being an issue!

Aussie Audi Guy
December 9th, 2015, 05:05 PM
Well, the elusive Stage 1 tune escapes me yet again. I was at a dealer at 9am. After 30 minutes of the system not recognising my ECU im thinking due to server overload we finally got in, entered my customer info and low and behold my ECU has no tune available for it.

Dealer put in a call to APR and they have to send off my ECU details so they can make a tune for it as they haven't come across one yet in a MY16 car.

Great White Buffalo
Great White Buffalo
Great White Buffalo

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/08/c6e3d53cd32eed6219aed72052911d3d.jpg


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Hey Javbomb - was your car at Mullers with Steve? Yes, yours is the only A3 ever seen with that boxcode.

If you get a chance, pop back & they will electronically read the rest of the data & we will come up with a plan to get yours done.

On the plus side, we have done a whole heap of previously non-programmable S3's all around the country today. Been a busy day.

Javbomb
December 9th, 2015, 05:07 PM
Hey Javbomb - was your car at Mullers with Steve? Yes, yours is the only A3 ever seen with that boxcode.

If you get a chance, pop back & they will electronically read the rest of the data & we will come up with a plan to get yours done.

On the plus side, we have done a whole heap of previously non-programmable S3's all around the country today. Been a busy day.

It was indeed mate.

Ha thats just my luck isn't it!

They said I would have to send away my ECU? Can they just read the data from it on their end?

That would be great.


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ewok666
December 10th, 2015, 10:52 AM
+1
It isn't expensive if you think of the performance gains. I bet if the Audi dealer offered us a 20% power increase as an options tick box we'd pay a lot more. The APR tunes transform the S3. As I have said after driving an RS3 on 2 occasions there is nothing in it and my tuned S3's transmission behaves better.

Did you get a combo deal when you got ECU and TCU done? How long does the TCU tune take?

roadrunner
December 10th, 2015, 11:31 AM
Did you get a combo deal when you got ECU and TCU done? How long does the TCU tune take?

No I got the ECU early in March. The TCU was a in Sept when it was released. TCU is <10 mins, ECU around 20 mins. Get them both as the TCU transforms the car.

Also consider looking at UniTronic flash DIY. https://www.moddedeuros.com/products/unitronic-stage-1plus-ecu-stage-1-dsg-2-0-tsi-ea888-gen-3-mqb . This is the route I'd go if I was doing it again, providing they can do the box codes on our cars.

ewok666
December 10th, 2015, 01:31 PM
No I got the ECU early in March. The TCU was a in Sept when it was released. TCU is <10 mins, ECU around 20 mins. Get them both as the TCU transforms the car.

Also consider looking at UniTronic flash DIY. https://www.moddedeuros.com/products/unitronic-stage-1plus-ecu-stage-1-dsg-2-0-tsi-ea888-gen-3-mqb . This is the route I'd go if I was doing it again, providing they can do the box codes on our cars.

Not a bad option but the Australian cost is about $2500 for both tunes including the cable. I assume when you buy the tune it's locked to oyur VIN?

EDIT: Never mind, I looked that up and it is locked to the VIN. For a $600 saving I think I'd go with APR if I go down that path. Disappointing that UniTronic here follows the APR OZ pricing strategy.

roadrunner
December 10th, 2015, 01:37 PM
Not a bad option but the Australian cost is about $2500 for both tunes including the cable. I assume when you buy the tune it's locked to oyur VIN?

Yes, only $1900 AUD ($1350 USD) for stage 1+ ECU & TCU with cable. Only the $175 cable is shipped to Oz, so no customs on software as it is downloaded once you have the cable. Just a note on the UniTronic is that the flash counter isn't reset, so each time you load/unload the counter increments.

ewok666
December 11th, 2015, 09:25 AM
Yes, only $1900 AUD ($1350 USD) for stage 1+ ECU & TCU with cable. Only the $175 cable is shipped to Oz, so no customs on software as it is downloaded once you have the cable. Just a note on the UniTronic is that the flash counter isn't reset, so each time you load/unload the counter increments.

True, if you import directly you can save a couple of hundred.....that said I'd rather have a local dealer with support. It's not their fault the distributor takes the lion share. The flash counter also concerns me.....

mp2811
December 22nd, 2015, 01:40 PM
Apr stage 1, anyone got this remap . - Page 5 - Tuning your Golf R MK7 - VW R Owners Club (http://www.vwroc.com/forums/topic/11272-apr-stage-1-anyone-got-this-remap/page-5)

check out dyno done yesterday latest stage 2 APR file in UK. The torque curve amazing! Hopefully Guy gets us this file here!

Remarcabull
December 22nd, 2015, 02:39 PM
Apr stage 1, anyone got this remap . - Page 5 - Tuning your Golf R MK7 - VW R Owners Club (http://www.vwroc.com/forums/topic/11272-apr-stage-1-anyone-got-this-remap/page-5)

check out dyno done yesterday latest stage 2 APR file in UK. The torque curve amazing! Hopefully Guy gets us this file here!

launching that would be pretty epic :) wonder if it would be the same with our fuel quality over here.

Definately need upgraded clutch pads. Im more interested in the Stage 3 for the S3 and the RS3 down the track.

dusktildawn
December 23rd, 2015, 10:08 AM
I've read pretty much all of the posts in this thread and I convinced myself to get the APR ECU tune done while the Xmas sale was on.
I contacted BWA in Seven Hills and they told me to bring the car down so they can have a look at the turbo part number. Since my S3 is probably one of the first ones off the boat, I had a feeling it would have the 702N turbo installed...BWA confirmed this was the case.

They were shutting down for xmas break today and will not be back until the 11th, I figured if I go ahead and blow the turbo tomorrow, I'll have to wait until the 11th to get the remap to back to stock done then tow to Audi.

I decided to hold off until then to be on the safe side, no point risking it to save a couple of hundred dollars. :kiss_rings:

roadrunner
December 23rd, 2015, 10:37 AM
I've read pretty much all of the posts in this thread and I convinced myself to get the APR ECU tune done while the Xmas sale was on.
I contacted BWA in Seven Hills and they told me to bring the car down so they can have a look at the turbo part number. Since my S3 is probably one of the first ones off the boat, I had a feeling it would have the 702N turbo installed...BWA confirmed this was the case.

They were shutting down for xmas break today and will not be back until the 11th, I figured if I go ahead and blow the turbo tomorrow, I'll have to wait until the 11th to get the remap to back to stock done then tow to Audi.

I decided to hold off until then to be on the safe side, no point risking it to save a couple of hundred dollars. :kiss_rings:
If you are concerned bout your turbo then don't do it, however there are probably a hundreds of cars running APR on a 702N without any issues. There are even reported failures on the latest rev. IF you have a faulty turbo it is going to break even as stock, a tune will simply accelerate the failure.
Any tune will put additional stress on everything, not just the turbo. You will have reduced engine and transmission components life, however for most us these cars will be on their 2nd or 3rd owners by then.

ewok666
December 23rd, 2015, 11:28 AM
I've read pretty much all of the posts in this thread and I convinced myself to get the APR ECU tune done while the Xmas sale was on.
I contacted BWA in Seven Hills and they told me to bring the car down so they can have a look at the turbo part number. Since my S3 is probably one of the first ones off the boat, I had a feeling it would have the 702N turbo installed...BWA confirmed this was the case.

They were shutting down for xmas break today and will not be back until the 11th, I figured if I go ahead and blow the turbo tomorrow, I'll have to wait until the 11th to get the remap to back to stock done then tow to Audi.

I decided to hold off until then to be on the safe side, no point risking it to save a couple of hundred dollars. :kiss_rings:

If you're worried then get a JB1 and run it for a while. If the turbo survives the increased workload then you should be fine anyway and if it fails just remove it yourself before calling Audi.

dusktildawn
December 23rd, 2015, 11:32 AM
If you are concerned bout your turbo then don't do it.

I was more concerned about not being able to take it back to BWA during this period in case something happens during their shutdown period but I agree on what you're saying.
The car is still under warranty so if I accelerate the failure on a possible dodgy turbo then so be it.

dusktildawn
December 23rd, 2015, 12:10 PM
If you're worried then get a JB1 and run it for a while. If the turbo survives the increased workload then you should be fine anyway and if it fails just remove it yourself before calling Audi.

sent you a PM. :_b:

Alwaysringsby4
December 30th, 2015, 07:40 AM
Q.I spoke to APR head office in Bris. before Xmas and was quoted $400 to add CAT delete file to my stage 1.Would that be them providing a full stage 2 tune upgrade or only a tweak ? Their Oz website is scant on detail re B7 platform - stage 2 isn't even mentioned and I can't ask them until mid Jan 2016. Anyone know ?

mp2811
December 30th, 2015, 08:15 AM
Q.I spoke to APR head office in Bris. before Xmas and was quoted $400 to add CAT delete file to my stage 1.Would that be them providing a full stage 2 tune upgrade or only a tweak ? Their Oz website is scant on detail re B7 platform - stage 2 isn't even mentioned and I can't ask them until mid Jan 2016. Anyone know ?

It will be the Stage 2 tune. It's the one that's just been completed/released in UK I believe. I had good chat to Guy about this jsut before Xmas too. Still not updated on their site but I guess will be shortly. Many people running stage 1 file with Cat delete but that was free I believe and was best results but could have slight adverse affects over time as not controlling the boost and fuelling obvioulsy as well as the proper stage 2.

Aussie Audi Guy
December 30th, 2015, 02:05 PM
Q.I spoke to APR head office in Bris. before Xmas and was quoted $400 to add CAT delete file to my stage 1.Would that be them providing a full stage 2 tune upgrade or only a tweak ? Their Oz website is scant on detail re B7 platform - stage 2 isn't even mentioned and I can't ask them until mid Jan 2016. Anyone know ?

There are no "Cat Delete" files available from ourselves or our dealers unless you have an unregistered car that won't be used on the road. True "Stage 2 files do have an extra cost, its a cost from APR depending on the complexity.

Run a 200 cell catalyst minimum & we can supply you software, but don't ask us to risk a $250k fine for working on your car.

Take it from me, there are little to no gains from high flow cats, cat deletes, relocations on K03 / K04 level cars. Once you upgrade to bigger turbo's you get benefits! I'm specifically talking the B5/B6/B7/B8 longitudinal 4 cylinder cars here - it's a different story for transverse cars (S3 /A3).

Alwaysringsby4
December 30th, 2015, 09:12 PM
There are no "Cat Delete" files available from ourselves or our dealers unless you have an unregistered car that won't be used on the road. True "Stage 2 files do have an extra cost, its a cost from APR depending on the complexity.

Run a 200 cell catalyst minimum & we can supply you software, but don't ask us to risk a $250k fine for working on your car.

Take it from me, there are little to no gains from high flow cats, cat deletes, relocations on K03 / K04 level cars. Once you upgrade to bigger turbo's you get benefits! I'm specifically talking the B5/B6/B7/B8 longitudinal 4 cylinder cars here - it's a different story for transverse cars (S3 /A3).
I guess I shouldn't have said Cat delete,as these weren't the exact words I used when asking about said file...
High flow cat was the requirement, but asking only if it threw a code,I now understand JHmotorsport's CAT has a J inlet for the rear Lambda and wont throw a code for example and spacers for 034's likewise.However my thinking through all of this is :High flow HPFP on the way from USA,CAT/dp for flow and.... A higher state of tune with more boost,advance etc....Thanks for your info,maybe I should come and see you in Brisvegas in the new year for this,you're just up the hwy,Ill PM you, Cheers and BTW sorry for the thread hijack,I know its about the amazing S3's..

Alwaysringsby4
December 31st, 2015, 06:31 AM
It will be the Stage 2 tune. It's the one that's just been completed/released in UK I believe. I had good chat to Guy about this jsut before Xmas too. Still not updated on their site but I guess will be shortly. Many people running stage 1 file with Cat delete but that was free I believe and was best results but could have slight adverse affects over time as not controlling the boost and fuelling obvioulsy as well as the proper stage 2.
Yep,thanks,found it on their site:APR 2.0 TFSI Longitudinal ECU Upgrade (http://www.goapr.co.uk/products/ecu_upgrade_20tfsi_long.html)
99 pounds sterling for the stage 2 upgrade,we would be lucky to purchase it for that here as their stage one is ~$600 less than APR in Oz.......Why ??
Are you chasing this for a 2.0 B7 as well ?

minstrel
January 3rd, 2016, 11:42 AM
I've read pretty much all of the posts in this thread and I convinced myself to get the APR ECU tune done while the Xmas sale was on.
I contacted BWA in Seven Hills and they told me to bring the car down so they can have a look at the turbo part number. Since my S3 is probably one of the first ones off the boat, I had a feeling it would have the 702N turbo installed...BWA confirmed this was the case.

They were shutting down for xmas break today and will not be back until the 11th, I figured if I go ahead and blow the turbo tomorrow, I'll have to wait until the 11th to get the remap to back to stock done then tow to Audi.

I decided to hold off until then to be on the safe side, no point risking it to save a couple of hundred dollars. :kiss_rings:


Remapping the ECU back to stock is one reason tune boxes claim they are less risky to warranty than ECU flashes. (Eg. will reflashing back to stock raise Audi's TD1 flag?)
Apart from additional cost, what's wrong with 3rd party flashing a spare ECU, and keeping the OEM ECU original as a backup? Would swapping back the original ECU vanish any trace of flashing / remapping?

Remarcabull
January 3rd, 2016, 11:46 AM
Remapping the ECU back to stock is one reason tune boxes claim they are less risky to warranty than ECU flashes. (Eg. will reflashing back to stock raise Audi's TD1 flag?)
Apart from additional cost, what's wrong with 3rd party flashing a spare ECU, and keeping the OEM ECU original as a backup? Would swapping back the original ECU vanish any trace of flashing / remapping?
If this was available I would have done it.but I haven't heard of anyone doing it yet or planning too. I think it's a lot harder to do as it has a unique id which has to match on the system. I think it's imbedded within a micro and not flashable at all. Would mean sending away your ecu etc.

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minstrel
January 3rd, 2016, 01:51 PM
Just to clarify - I'm suggesting the original OEM ECU be mothballed - the one known to Audi, as logged during services. The spare ECU is flashed, and Audi need never see it in use - so its unique ID is only known to the tuner, not Audi. Or am I missing something?

Remarcabull
January 3rd, 2016, 02:13 PM
Just to clarify - I'm suggesting the original OEM ECU be mothballed - the one known to Audi, as logged during services. The spare ECU is flashed, and Audi need never see it in use - so its unique ID is only known to the tuner, not Audi. Or am I missing something?
You can't as they area locked to the id if the ecu. Each ecu has a id number and by having two ecus you would have two Id numbers of which the he one with the correct id number would only work with the system. I believe this is how it works, hence you hear of people buying new electrics and add on for their car which don't work because the system isn't encoded with it. Someone with more knowledge of the system can probably clarify further

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AdamD
January 3rd, 2016, 05:46 PM
The ECU needs to be coded to the rest of the car (or, rather, the other way round) - many modules/subsystems all expect a specific ECU in order to operate. This is part of the "component protection" system that prevents people from stealing various components from cars and reselling them or using them in other vehicles.

As far as I know, the act of coding an ECU and other modules together can only be done by factory-based systems, over the internet from a dealership.

mp2811
January 3rd, 2016, 05:54 PM
8V S3 Tuning Thread | Page 47 | Audi-Sport.net (http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/8v-s3-tuning-thread.201845/page-47)

Couple of Dyno graphs here of APR stage 1 with intake. 380hp and 400lbs torque seems the mark from what I've seen same mods. Interesting was Stage 1 intake, DSG map and upgraded IC got 401.5hp and 425lbs, so some good gains from IC upgrade.

minstrel
February 1st, 2016, 11:49 AM
The ECU needs to be coded to the rest of the car (or, rather, the other way round) - many modules/subsystems all expect a specific ECU in order to operate. This is part of the "component protection" system that prevents people from stealing various components from cars and reselling them or using them in other vehicles.

As far as I know, the act of coding an ECU and other modules together can only be done by factory-based systems, over the internet from a dealership.

Re a coded ECU, does anyone know ...
- After flashing an ECU, can a tuner (eg. APR) re-flash / restore the ECU with (say) the OEM Audi 221Kw flash instead of the original 206Kw for a CJXB?

roadrunner
February 3rd, 2016, 01:32 PM
APR is out (both ECU & DSG)... UniTronic going in :)

Alister
February 3rd, 2016, 01:43 PM
APR is out (both ECU & DSG)... UniTronic going in :)

Look forward to hearing your thoughts on the differences.

Out of interest, has your car been on a dyno at all?

roadrunner
February 3rd, 2016, 02:07 PM
Look forward to hearing your thoughts on the differences.

Out of interest, has your car been on a dyno at all?
Yes, about a year ago. Dyno Dynamics and numbers at crank were on par to those advertised by APR in the US (not Oz site)

Remarcabull
February 3rd, 2016, 03:13 PM
APR is out (both ECU & DSG)... UniTronic going in :)
Why the change?

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roadrunner
February 3rd, 2016, 04:00 PM
Why the change?

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Want control of my own flashing at home, not rely on APR agents. UniTronic lets you flash from home with LT & their cable.
Want to try lower torque and higher power option of UniTronic tune. APR has a higher torque and lower power. I think the S3 could benefit at the top end with more kW.
Have a few small annoyances with the DSG tune.
Concerned with the longevity of pushing +500Nm on the DQ250

Overall APR remains an outstanding tune, I can always go back to it free as stored for my VIN with APR.