2.0 TSFI Oil Consumption- Class Action Poll

[CamoQ5]

Hi Gents

Well to my delight I have found how to do the poll thing on the forum... I think??

As mentioned in the main thread on this topic, I want to try ascertain numbers that would support and be willing to draft a letter to the ACCC regards the way Audi AG & Audi Australia are treating their customer that are suffering with these oil consumption issues on their 2.0 TSFI.

So that said, please vote as follows:

YES - You will be prepared to draft a letter and send it off as a coordinated, joint attack to the ACCC.
(If you vote YES please also PM me so I have your details for later comms.)

NO - You are not will to get involved and need a gratis teaspoon of cement. LOL

Look forward to the response.

Cheers
Camo

 

[Robby_jai]

so how are they treating you ??? I had this issue and they fixed it in a jiffy and i was well looked after....and i know a lot of people are..

Hi Gents

Well to my delight I have found how to do the poll thing on the forum... I think??

As mentioned in the main thread on this topic, I want to try ascertain numbers that would support and be willing to draft a letter to the ACCC regards the way Audi AG & Audi Australia are treating their customer that are suffering with these oil consumption issues on their 2.0 TSFI.

So that said, please vote as follows:

YES - You will be prepared to draft a letter and send it off as a coordinated, joint attack to the ACCC.
(If you vote YES please also PM me so I have your details for later comms.)

NO - You are not will to get involved and need a gratis teaspoon of cement. LOL

Look forward to the response.

Cheers
Camo

 

[CamoQ5]

so how are they treating you ??? I had this issue and they fixed it in a jiffy and i was well looked after....and i know a lot of people are..

Hey Robbi

Its not going great. My problem is being compounded by the fact that I have had the vehicle reflashed and they are now looking for any excuse to avoid paying. After much wailing & gnashing of teeth they have agreed to do stage 1 repairs under warranty. Stage 2 i.e. rebuild or replacement they have aid they will consider depending on the result etc.

My issue with this is just how I have been Bullied by Audi, and had scare tactics used against me that have now going to force me to reflash back to standard and and lose $1500 in the process unless Superchips are prepared to refund me, which I highly doubt....

I just dont see how I can be forced to lose $1500 as a result of an issue that they have widely acknowledged is a common fault in these engines.

I am hoping that collective pressure and possible action will open their ears a bit to their customers that have supported them and make them a little more flexible in their approach to us.

 

[d-train]

An excerpt from ACCC: Buying a motor vehicle

Consumer guarantees

When you buy a car the seller and manufacturer provide a range on guarantees including:

• the car will be of acceptable quality - safe, durable and free from defects, acceptable in appearance and finish and perform as expected
• the car will be fit for the purpose you made known to the seller
• the car will match the demonstration model and sample
• the car will match the description
• any express warranties will be honoured
• spare parts and repair facilities will be generally available for a reasonable time.

It is important to remember that when you buy a used car there are particular guarantees that apply to ensure that

• you have title to the goods
• you have undisturbed possession of the goods
• there are no undisclosed securities on the goods.

When am I entitled to a remedy?

If your car fails to meet a consumer guarantee, you may be entitled to a replacement, repair, or refund.
You may not be entitled to a remedy if you:

• simply change your mind or decide you do not like the car
• damage or use your car in an unreasonable or unintended manner
• discover you can get a better deal elsewhere (unless the seller guarantees that the goods cannot be purchased more cheaply elsewhere)
• did not rely upon the seller’s advice that the car was not suitable for your requirements

You do not have go to the manufacturer for a remedy unless you purchased the goods directly from them.
Can I choose the remedy I want?

The law makes an important distinction between minor failures to comply with the consumer guarantees and major failures.
Your remedy options depend on whether the problem with your good is:

• a major failure, or
• a minor failure.

For minor problems
Minor failures to comply with a consumer guarantee can normally be fixed or resolved in a reasonable amount of time.
In this case, the seller can choose to offer you a refund, replacement or repair. This must be provided free of charge and within a reasonable time depending on the circumstances.
If the seller refuses to fix the problem or takes too long, you may be able to get it fixed by someone else and recover the costs from the seller.
You cannot immediately reject the car and demand a refund - you must give the supplier a chance to fix the problem.
For major problems
Depending on the method of purchasing the car if there is a major failure with the, you can where possible:

• reject it and get a refund
• reject it and get an identical replacement, or one of similar value if reasonably available, or
• keep the car and get compensation for the drop in value caused by the problem.

You get to choose, not the seller or manufacturer.
How long do my rights last?

Your consumer rights are not limited to a set time period. Instead, they apply for the amount of time that is reasonable to expect given the cost and quality of the item.

 

[Robby_jai]

Hey Robbi

Its not going great. My problem is being compounded by the fact that I have had the vehicle reflashed and they are now looking for any excuse to avoid paying. After much wailing & gnashing of teeth they have agreed to do stage 1 repairs under warranty. Stage 2 i.e. rebuild or replacement they have aid they will consider depending on the result etc.

My issue with this is just how I have been Bullied by Audi, and had scare tactics used against me that have now going to force me to reflash back to standard and and lose $1500 in the process unless Superchips are prepared to refund me, which I highly doubt....

I just dont see how I can be forced to lose $1500 as a result of an issue that they have widely acknowledged is a common fault in these engines.

I am hoping that collective pressure and possible action will open their ears a bit to their customers that have supported them and make them a little more flexible in their approach to us.

i can understand your frustration and hear your pain mate... but if i think i understood your explanation... your car is flashed to stage 1 yeh ??? Technically your car is modified... and audi has every right with in their warranty rules to refuse you warranty... as Audi can rightly say ... that your modification caused the problem..... whether they can prove it is another matter...

but to share some personal experiences with you... when i had my heavily modified S3... i had major misfiring issues with the car... i knew i caused the problem by modifying it to the limits.... Audi assessed the car... and informed me it would be an expensive fix.. and its not under warranty due to the fact my car is modified and violated their warranty conditions which we all sign up to when we purchase the car...

i took it on the chin and paid the repair bill....because i really didnt have a leg to stand on..

your case is a tiny bit different... because your case is actually a well known issue with that model engine..... the problem you have is .. because your modified it...... Audi can actually legally refuse you warranty as per their t&c .....

I'm not sure what taking class action is going to achieve I am sorry. i think you just have to negotiate and find a middle ground to resolve this matter...

 

[Haru]

Camo, I understand your frustration, especially seeing that your issues came up 2 days after ECU flashing.

As Robby said, legally, they're above board, they can void your warranty. Ethically, morally speaking, they know that your reflash is not the cause, but it'd be uphill and very expensive in court to prove otherwise. It wouldn't surprise me if they didn't have stats on how many modded cars vs unmodded that go through for fixes, and they've probably determined that losing the custom of the modded owners is cheaper than fixing.

At the least, you've managed to negotiate a stage 1 fix, hopefully with the oil consumption test in as well. I believe that there has been changes made to the ECU management that may reduce oil consumption, so leave it stock for the time being.

If you're really annoyed enough to do something, the cheap recourse is an owners picket handing out lemons outside Audi HQ. Barring that, lawyering up may not necessarily work in your favour. Voting with your wallet on your next vehicle purchase will.

Edit/Additional note: One way the class action may get traction is if you get sufficient owners who have UNMODIFIED cars, who have annoying levels of oil consumption, but still fall less than what Audi would say requires stage 2. Your chance of getting redress through that would be the point that a reasonable consumer would expect that a new prestige vehicle would have sufficient engine oil in the sump to make it from one service to the next, owners manual notwithstanding.

 

[d-train]

....but still fall less than what Audi would say requires stage 2. Your chance of getting redress through that would be the point that a reasonable consumer would expect that a new prestige vehicle would have sufficient engine oil in the sump to make it from one service to the next, owners manual notwithstanding.

This is absolutely the grey area. Can Audi really have a "say" when under the ACCC, it states:

Consumer guarantees


When you buy a car the seller and manufacturer provide a range on guarantees including:

• the car will be of acceptable quality - safe, durable and free from defects, acceptable in appearance and finish and perform as expected

But once you have a modified car, it's a whole new ball game. I think Audi is well within their rights to refuse remedy, albeit it may not be the most customer focused behavior if you look at the issue holistically.

For the record, I voted for cement because I need to re-do my driveway!

 

[gmx]

It would be interesting to see if the S3/TT-S motors use different pistons and piston rings to the run of the mill motor.

Increased cyl pressure = more blowby. But that's usually on cars with decent amount mileage under their belt...
So yes, unfortunately you lose going to them with a flash on your car. Should have got your tuner to revert to standard.

 

[Marcus_Camby]

Your consumer rights are not limited to a set time period. Instead, they apply for the amount of time that is reasonable to expect given the cost and quality of the item.

I have been looking into the Statutory Warranty Vs Paid Extended Warranty for my Q5.

The 'consumer rights are not limited to a set time period' aspect is really grey for me.

How much more warranty period can a Q5 owner expect vs a Ssanyong Korando owner?

I don't want to purchase extended warranty un-ncecessarily but I am afraid of going out of warranty with unknown coverage.

 

[d-train]

I have been looking into the Statutory Warranty Vs Paid Extended Warranty for my Q5.

The 'consumer rights are not limited to a set time period' aspect is really grey for me.

How much more warranty period can a Q5 owner expect vs a Ssanyong Korando owner?

I don't want to purchase extended warranty un-ncecessarily but I am afraid of going out of warranty with unknown coverage.

It's grey because it depends on the situation that arose. What's not grey is that there's an avenue of escalation, and whether the outcome is in your favour or not depends again on the situation.

The ACCC certainly doesn't discriminate between vendors or brands.

Can you not go extended when you've had the car a little while? I haven't read too much into extended, but is it not something that can be renewed annually? Then you can see what your appetite is for paying for an extra premium on a year to year basis. Could be wrong but I don't think the many Q5s on the road today are running with extended either.

But I would understand if you've had previous negative experience with car warranties why you might want further coverage, and hearing cases like this oil issue doesn't help! You wouldn't be the only one.

 

[Haru]

It's grey because it depends on the situation that arose. What's not grey is that there's an avenue of escalation, and whether the outcome is in your favour or not depends again on the situation.

The ACCC certainly doesn't discriminate between vendors or brands.

I would agree with d-train. The whole grey area is the problem - "warranty" and I use the term loosely here, has a general test. "Would a reasonable consumer, given this situation, expect that this item would not have failed after this time"

It's a very nebulous test for statutory warranty IMHO.

 

[Marcus_Camby]

Yes...this greyness becomes a much bigger risk when talking about a $70k car.

A $1k washing machine I could live with.

 

[d-train]

Yes...this greyness becomes a much bigger risk when talking about a $70k car.

A $1k washing machine I could live with.

You should walk away Marcus. It's not worth stressing over a problem you don't even have yet

The Q5 is not so niche that there are no comparable products.

Well, you're actually ahead, having not actually bought the car. Just reading your posts, not sure if you're trying to convince yourself? I reckon do yourself a favour and walk away, otherwise if anything happens, you just might be kicking yourself.

 

[rockDAhouse]

Hi CamoQ5, how did audi know your car has been reflashed?

 

[Haru]

Typically, the Audi dealer service centres will check the long coding on the ECU. If they do that, ECU reflashes are apparent. Assume that they will do this if you take the car in for any sort of servicing at the dealer.
If you're insistent on ECU flashing, either live with voided warranty, or alternatively, reflash the car to stock before taking it in to the dealer - that should keep the car out of the bad books so to speak.

 

[CamoQ5]

Hi CamoQ5, how did audi know your car has been reflashed?

Hi the car had to in for a whole plethora of other issues, none mechanical. A few days before I rang them and queried the oil consumption issue. They said no problem hey will look at it at the same time. I only had the re flash done two days before it went down as I never thought they were even closely related. As said in an earlier post have reflashed several VW cars and never had any issues. I understand that whole principle of warranty claims on related issues parts I.e. turbo etc being rejected but never have I EVER heard of a reflashed increasing oil consumption.

It's complete BS and only being used in order to side step their responsibility.

Anyway when it went in for the other work and oil cons repair stage 1 they apparently check the ecu and picked up the new file.

 

[CamoQ5]

Typically, the Audi dealer service centres will check the long coding on the ECU. If they do that, ECU reflashes are apparent. Assume that they will do this if you take the car in for any sort of servicing at the dealer.
If you're insistent on ECU flashing, either live with voided warranty, or alternatively, reflash the car to stock before taking it in to the dealer - that should keep the car out of the bad books so to speak.

Haru,

thats all well and good but b law they cannot cancel your warranty on the entire car! They can cast doubt over individual components such as turbo, manifold, engine or drive train BUT they have to show reasonable cause that the modification I actually caused he damage.

My issue is that they are basically bullying me into removing the flash file. They first threatened to cancel my entire warranty. They then said its only on its only this oil cons costs they wont cover. Bare in mind this flash file had only been installed 2 days before the file was read by the dealership. There is No way that any damage could reasonable have been caused by that file in such a short space of time, if ever. Besides how do they explain that there are thousands of these cars across the world that have not been flashed yet have the same or worse oil cons rates.

As a habitual tuner I full understand the consequences but will not be bullied into a situation that costs me money, a warranty and possible resale value of my vehicle over a problem that the factory has basically admitted to.

 

[Aussie Audi Guy]

See above thread:

http://www.ozaudi.com/forums/f9/a4-...g-oil-problems-information-here-33731-16.html

 

[Rapaudi]

I don't want to join the class action but I do want to add another documented case.

My A4 (B8 2.0T Quattro) had been buning more oil than I would have expected, but I was putting up with it.
It then broke down. You can see the listing under the A4 listings.

2nd time it broke down, I thought it was the same thing again. Update on my problem with my A4. It was rings, sort of. One ring had broken and this caused damage to the cylinder, with fragments going into the sump.
Needed a whole new engine. Car is only 30 months old and around 38,000Kms. Not driven hard at all. Still under warranty.

Very happy with the dealership and the guys there getting it fixed. No issues at all.
Audi themselves seemed to have been good as well, but I didn't deal directly with them. It was a quick turnaround.

My issue is that the ring broke in the first place for a car that has done few Kms and not driven hard. Just chalk it up to maybe a bad batch of rings or something???

btw, dealership say the new engine is only covered by remainder of car warranty, but Audi have corrected and say, "all there parts have a 2 year warranty and the engine will be covered under that assumption".

 

[vini]

Guys,

I have been looking around for an A4 B8 and wondering how much of a problem this oil consumption issue is. Apparently some cars had it and some didn't.

Is it actually worth buying a B8 2.0 at this stage?

Thanks
Vini