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GIAC has just Released Software for RS6.
- Thread starter Fastest Aussie Audi
- Start date
Fastest Aussie Audi
New member
ping
Pinging is not caused by boost alone.
many factors come into this, ignition timing, air fuel delivery, quality of fuel, type of spark plugs etc etc..
Pinging is not caused by boost alone.
many factors come into this, ignition timing, air fuel delivery, quality of fuel, type of spark plugs etc etc..
milkandjuice
New member
Fast Aussie Audi, and so what your saying is then that boost is not the only factor in pinging, but also the way a chip is mapped, so if a chip is mapped for colder climates like in some european countries, don't you think then that were are more liable to have problems when we face our summers. And I didn't mention that the sole prob would be boost levels, but a contribution of several things. :roll:
Ea2001, thanks for that info mate, couldn't find much literature on it. Are you sure the ECU will retard the ignition enough to control pinging? I know on other cars such devices work, but on to a minor degree.
Dru
Ea2001, thanks for that info mate, couldn't find much literature on it. Are you sure the ECU will retard the ignition enough to control pinging? I know on other cars such devices work, but on to a minor degree.
Dru
ea2001
New member
dru
Hi Dru
Not having done an RS6 myself all I can tell you is after talking to APR yesterday about the RS6's they have done in the States where climate conditions vary even more than here, they have had no instances of pre-ignition or detonation and if they did I am sure they would not release a product that did this as this problem can burn or punch holes in pistons in as little as a second.
APR offer a full money back guarantee and I am a fully liscenced and insured workshop which would cover any damage caused by the software.
I stand by the work that I do. About the only way other than taking the word of the software developer or other people who have had the modification is to try the product yourself and carry out your own testing.
Best regards
Derek
Hi Dru
Not having done an RS6 myself all I can tell you is after talking to APR yesterday about the RS6's they have done in the States where climate conditions vary even more than here, they have had no instances of pre-ignition or detonation and if they did I am sure they would not release a product that did this as this problem can burn or punch holes in pistons in as little as a second.
APR offer a full money back guarantee and I am a fully liscenced and insured workshop which would cover any damage caused by the software.
I stand by the work that I do. About the only way other than taking the word of the software developer or other people who have had the modification is to try the product yourself and carry out your own testing.
Best regards
Derek
Fastest Aussie Audi
New member
.
well thats correct, as Normally aspirated cars can ping too, they do not run boost.
The excuse the ECU will retard is poor and is only a poor excuse.
Generally on Me5 and Me7 motronics, when pinging is detected, ignition is retarded by 3 degrees, then on each engine revolution the ignition is advanced 0.3 degrees.
Now there are limits to the amount of retardation and advance that can be achieved.
I think from memory max variation is either 6 or 9 degrees.
This is only One parameter that is affected, Fueling etc is also altered.
So if a Chip is opt programmed for a certain condition to have max power,
taking you car to a totally different environment would certainly not give optimum performance.
I used to have a Wetterauer K-04 kit in my own car, that was a total disaster, that pinged its head off.
This is one big reason why you get the powerlevels in a stock car, the car is made to suit the biggest variation of conditions in the world market.
Once you chip, you are fine tuning your car, but you have automatically
reduced the conditions the car will operate perfectly in.
This goes for virtually mod on the car including suspension etc..
well thats correct, as Normally aspirated cars can ping too, they do not run boost.
The excuse the ECU will retard is poor and is only a poor excuse.
Generally on Me5 and Me7 motronics, when pinging is detected, ignition is retarded by 3 degrees, then on each engine revolution the ignition is advanced 0.3 degrees.
Now there are limits to the amount of retardation and advance that can be achieved.
I think from memory max variation is either 6 or 9 degrees.
This is only One parameter that is affected, Fueling etc is also altered.
So if a Chip is opt programmed for a certain condition to have max power,
taking you car to a totally different environment would certainly not give optimum performance.
I used to have a Wetterauer K-04 kit in my own car, that was a total disaster, that pinged its head off.
This is one big reason why you get the powerlevels in a stock car, the car is made to suit the biggest variation of conditions in the world market.
Once you chip, you are fine tuning your car, but you have automatically
reduced the conditions the car will operate perfectly in.
This goes for virtually mod on the car including suspension etc..
ea2001
New member
retard
Hi Lucas
The retard on the RS6 is 0-12deg crank when operating normally. ie that is within spec. It can as far as I know retard further but then there is a problem that needs to be addressed.
No body is using excuses for anything, the system was installed by Audi because it is needed even on stock cars. Of course there are limits to retard. Nobody suggested there was not. There is no point in retarding an ignition system past what will keep the engine running and running safely.
Derek
Hi Lucas
The retard on the RS6 is 0-12deg crank when operating normally. ie that is within spec. It can as far as I know retard further but then there is a problem that needs to be addressed.
No body is using excuses for anything, the system was installed by Audi because it is needed even on stock cars. Of course there are limits to retard. Nobody suggested there was not. There is no point in retarding an ignition system past what will keep the engine running and running safely.
Derek
Fastest Aussie Audi
New member
.
I thnk you missed the point on what i was saying.
I was not criticizing on what audi put in standard,
i was looking at what tuners do and their limitations in programming.
This is a big problem when a generically tuned chip done in some other country is simply installed here with no further tuning etc for local conditions.
and then stating the ecu will compensate for it.
I thnk you missed the point on what i was saying.
I was not criticizing on what audi put in standard,
i was looking at what tuners do and their limitations in programming.
This is a big problem when a generically tuned chip done in some other country is simply installed here with no further tuning etc for local conditions.
and then stating the ecu will compensate for it.
ea2001
New member
climate
Hi Josh
Can you give me the details of the different areas in Australia that have been used for this testing.
As for the vendor standing by what they do I have already stated that I do, and plenty of testimonials all over the net for happy customers.
The suggestion for doing your own testing is for somebody who for whatever reason needs more proof than testomonials and my word.
Derek[/quote]
Hi Josh
Can you give me the details of the different areas in Australia that have been used for this testing.
As for the vendor standing by what they do I have already stated that I do, and plenty of testimonials all over the net for happy customers.
The suggestion for doing your own testing is for somebody who for whatever reason needs more proof than testomonials and my word.
Derek[/quote]
A4PLAY
New member
Seems to me that each performance company must be doing their job and meeting customer expectations cause i haven't heard any bad reviews.
There is no use saying that one chip is superior than the other because i feel that part of what helps a customer make up the decision is the availablilty and support provided by a particular company. I know that the ECU can be sent away but customers would have their mind at easy if there was a workshop near them who could fix any concerns.
There is no use saying that one chip is superior than the other because i feel that part of what helps a customer make up the decision is the availablilty and support provided by a particular company. I know that the ECU can be sent away but customers would have their mind at easy if there was a workshop near them who could fix any concerns.
Turbomike61
New member
Saying something is tuned for exact Australian conditions is total B.S. The fact is that this country is so large with massive variations in climate and atmospheric conditions. The fuel companies supply a number of variations of each fuel for various parts of the country, and these change at various times of the year. The fuel that Hobart uses in winter is vastly different to what Cairns uses in summer. Some of these variables are required by law (evapouration rates in summer), others are simply to compensate for variations in climate and altitude. Now lets say I fill my car with fuel in Cairns. I put it on a traim to Melb., then ferry it to Tassie. Did the tuners allow for this, a greater variable than say Italy and Sydney. I think you get the picture. The vast amount of tuning done by car manufacturers for cars in different parts of the world, comes down to suitability to FEUL QUALITY and EMISSIONS. Most of the fine tuning is done by the learning characteristics of the ECU. With the variables in Australia alone, to optimise the tuning would take hundreds of test, and them it still couldn't be fully controlled. Thats why drag racers use weather stations. I find it offensive that technical comments are made by people who think that lean mixtures cause pinging.
ea2001
New member
climate
Must agree there Mike.
Unless you drive in a climate controlled enviornment conditions will always be different.
I recently visited Death Valley in the USA @ 44deg 5% humidity and on the same day drove to San Francisco @ heavy fog and 7deg. How do you tune a chip for that yet have to do something different for Melbourne to the Snowy Mountains.
I agree tuning the chip for different conditions would be ideal. But how often do you want to have to do that. Every 10 mins? We all live in the real world.
Derek
Must agree there Mike.
Unless you drive in a climate controlled enviornment conditions will always be different.
I recently visited Death Valley in the USA @ 44deg 5% humidity and on the same day drove to San Francisco @ heavy fog and 7deg. How do you tune a chip for that yet have to do something different for Melbourne to the Snowy Mountains.
I agree tuning the chip for different conditions would be ideal. But how often do you want to have to do that. Every 10 mins? We all live in the real world.
Derek
When we had the S3 chipped, the programmer had 32 different programs for MY2000 S3's that Audi developed for various world markets. I suspect that performance companies take the most common program and develop them further. To deveplop 32 programs for just one model some how doesn't seem economicial.
chips
The question i want to ask is that here we have a car that's supposedly AUDI mega beast and it doesn't comes with a temp. compensation correction device or does it? If it does then the chip can be tune anywhere.
but what i know is that i've personal seen 2 and 3 cars (stock) of the exact same makes hopping onto a dyno and produces completely power and torque output. What would be correct if i may is that the chip should be tune to each individual car taking into account fuel qualities and local conditions.
So a chip that is batch run CANNOT deliver optimum performance, This is the very reason why our aftermarket management tuners business are so healthy and some of the best tuners in the world lives here. i know of a handful of ppls who tunes WRC and F1 who lives right here in Brisbane, and Australia makes the best a/m management bar none!!!
The question i want to ask is that here we have a car that's supposedly AUDI mega beast and it doesn't comes with a temp. compensation correction device or does it? If it does then the chip can be tune anywhere.
but what i know is that i've personal seen 2 and 3 cars (stock) of the exact same makes hopping onto a dyno and produces completely power and torque output. What would be correct if i may is that the chip should be tune to each individual car taking into account fuel qualities and local conditions.
So a chip that is batch run CANNOT deliver optimum performance, This is the very reason why our aftermarket management tuners business are so healthy and some of the best tuners in the world lives here. i know of a handful of ppls who tunes WRC and F1 who lives right here in Brisbane, and Australia makes the best a/m management bar none!!!
Turbomike61
New member
Dog...What wasn says is 100% correct. The reason these tuners don't make chips for Audi is that they are busy producing the best programmable engine management in the world, or tuning them for motor racing. Systems such as Motec, Autronic etc are simply the best you can buy anywhere. That's their business and that's what they stick to.
Sammy...As far as multiple variations of tune for a particular model, find out how many slight variations there are for the model production range that need to be tuned in, and how many different ecu models are used. I think you may be surprised.
Sammy...As far as multiple variations of tune for a particular model, find out how many slight variations there are for the model production range that need to be tuned in, and how many different ecu models are used. I think you may be surprised.
